Republicus

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." The Statue of Liberty (P.S. Please be so kind as to enter through the proper channels and in an orderly fashion)

Name:
Location: Arlington, Virginia, United States

Wednesday, May 07, 2008

Clinton Curse Alive And Well

(1)




(2)



(3)



(4)



(5)



(6)



(7)




Above:

(1) Bill Clinton, feelin' great.

(2) Clinton with his vice president Al Gore. Gore stood by Clinton through thick and thin and bellowed that Clinton would be remembered as "One of the greatest presidents in history!" following the Impeachment acquittal. Gore then decided to distance himself from him to "run as his own man" in 2000, on a (dubious) record of "Peace & Prosperity."

He lost. The Clinton apologists say it was because of his choice to distance himself from Clinton, but it was Clinton who compelled the massive mobilization of angry Republicans, disgusted conservatives, and the military to swarm the polls and deny Gore a Clinton Third Term.

Bill & Al are apparently no longer on speaking terms.

(3) Clinton with 2004 Democratic nominee John Kerry. Kerry bought the explanation that Gore lost four years before because he failed to capitalize on Clinton's popularity and made sure to be seen with him and allow him to campaign on his behalf.

He lost before an onslaught of the greatest turnout of free voters in the history of democracy, who voted for Bush (an historic record you never hear about).

Clinton and Kerry have not been seen together since.

(4) Clinton with President George Bush. Having been elected for a second term by the greatest popular vote in the history of democracy, Bush felt confident enough to "spend his surplus political capital" by calling for the privatization of Social Security...

...and getting chummy with Clinton.

The descent of his once-stellar approvals began at that time (while Clinton's ascended).

(5) Bill, Hillary, and Buddy the Dog (lookin' for a bone).

Shortly after leaving the White House, Buddy was locked up in a kennel, escaped, was hit by a car, and died.

(6) Hillary keepin' busy.

(7) Eight Belles. A filly in the Kentucky Derby just the other day. She ran determinedly but, just as she crossed the wire, she collapsed with two broken front ankles and had to be euthanized in front of everybody.

She had been endorsed by Hillary Clinton.

She came in second behind the stallion Big Brown (I'm not making this up).

133 Comments:

Blogger Just Some Guy said...

Can we euthanize her after the Convention?

10:54 AM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

hehehe

Lots of people even in the Democratic Party would like to do that right about now methinks.....

12:09 PM  
Blogger John said...

I hear she's thinking about making a deal where she's drop out if Obama agrees to pay the debts she accrued running her campaign (which included spiels about "fiscal discipline").

Can you imagine? Barack agreeing to pay the debts she racked up trying to destroy him?

Democrats.

Best thing for the party would be for them to rid themselves of the Clintons once-and-for-all.

They're doing to the party what they did to Gore, Kerry, W., Buddy, and Eight Belles, not to mention the friends, acquaintances, and assorted bimbos who were fool enough to enter their orbit (and they keep smiling and getting richer in the meantime).

1:56 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

You know, I had the thought earlier today, when releases came out that she has "lent herself" more campaign money, that this woman has lost her mind. Obama, love him or hate him, has been a fund-raising machine, and he is not going to suffer no matter what the outcome is going to be. To pursue her dreams of power, she is willing to either go into her family savings and/or make some kind of weird deal to pay off her debt by agreeing to back out.

That being said......I think she would have rather broken both of her husband's legs rather than some horse......

3:30 PM  
Blogger John said...

Well, I think the vampire is going to finally see some sunlight (and so will we).

5:53 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"Best thing for the party would be for them to rid themselves of the Clintons once-and-for-all."

How long have people in Arkansas wished for just that thing?

"Can you imagine? Barack agreeing to pay the debts she racked up trying to destroy him? "

Bwaaaahahahaha!!!! NO!

9:14 PM  
Blogger Z said...

Your comment to #5? Thanks for the belly laugh! THAT is hilarious! (and, oh, so right!) I keep giggling!

Man, that one of her reading the info on IRAQ? Ya think she goes to the same plastic surgeon ol' Pelosi goes to now? geeeez!!
SOMETHING happened between then and now, and it ain't BOTOX!

yech, that top picture made my stomach turn..that sneer, that snide glare....such contempt.

She's going to get out if OBAMA PAYS HER DEBTS? I'm hearing Obama's for reparations!
Does ANYBODY believe in personal responsibility anymore? ARGH!!!

7:06 PM  
Blogger Z said...

john, i'm hoping you find the time to see my SAME PINK SHELL fiction piece and let me know what you think. I love that you've written other than political/cultural stuff and you (and Farmer John) inspired me to bring out some 'writing'. I hope you like it. thanks.

7:12 PM  
Blogger nanc said...

funny thing - if you ask most people in arkansas about these stooges - NONE of them will admit to there ever having been here. the people who do like them are out of staters!

jzzguh - i'm thinkin' we could...

*8]

8:58 PM  
Blogger Z said...

nanc, somebody voted them into the governership.... But, you're right..a friend said that, during the Clinton run for pres, there were tons of anti-Clinton bumperstickers throughout Arkansas.
I wonder what broke the camel's back for Arkansans (SP?) from the time they voted him into the gov's mansion to the time they thought "UHOH, this guy and that woman are TRUOBLE".

9:02 PM  
Anonymous Flintstone said...

Does anyone on here ever have an IDEA to discuss...seems like all silly nastiness to me. This is a phenomenon all over the blogs...maybe we need to be out of office for a while to try to rethink this mess. McCain is an embarrassment to me and he should be to you to.

9:26 PM  
Blogger John said...

Z said:

"Ya think she goes to the same plastic surgeon ol' Pelosi goes to now? geeeez!! SOMETHING happened between then and now, and it ain't BOTOX!"

She denies it, but she quite apparently had her teeth capped and whitened, with an intentional slight overbite by extended incisors that gives her that girlish grin she likes to show off.

"yech, that top picture made my stomach turn..that sneer, that snide glare....such contempt."

He's in love with himself.

"She's going to get out if OBAMA PAYS HER DEBTS? I'm hearing Obama's for reparations!"

Funny you heard that. I could swear I heard him telegraph that twice.

I'll ask in the next post, and hopefully it will spread, because no one has come out and asked him yet in (as far as I know).

"john, i'm hoping you find the time to see my SAME PINK SHELL fiction piece and let me know what you think."

I'll check it out.

Nanc said:

"funny thing - if you ask most people in arkansas about these stooges - NONE of them will admit to there ever having been here. the people who do like them are out of staters!"

Bush won Arkansas over Clinton, and from 1996 to 2007, the good people of Arkansas had Huckabee as guv.

Z said:

"Nanc, somebody voted them into the governership..."

They tossed him out after his first go at it (because of how he bungled the Cuban refugee crisis) but then he begged them for a second chance (he needed to get back in to get a shot at the presidency, having tried to get there through Congress earlier, but losing that attempt.

Flintstone said:

"Does anyone on here ever have an IDEA to discuss...seems like all silly nastiness to me."

Silly nastiness, Flint? Where have you been? This is a reactionary blog to all the silly--but spoken in all seriousness--nastiness that conservatives and/or Republicans have endured not only for the most part of the Bush presidency, but for decades.

Furthermore, as pointed out here recently, the level of nastiness here doesn't come close to the venom spewed by lefties either on their home turf (at The Huffington Post, for example) or as guests at right-wing blogs (e.g. Mr. Sayet's).

"This is a phenomenon all over the blogs..."

Well, there's a culture war. You lament the preponderance of "silly nastiness" over a substantial battles for ideas, but you can't debate ideas against people who won't discuss theirs (for obvious reasons) and instead launch into ad hominems to make their case.

"maybe we need to be out of office for a while to try to rethink this mess. McCain is an embarrassment to me and he should be to you to."

What "mess," Flint? The mess created by leftist propaganda, insisting day in and day out that Bush has "destroyed" the country, and is "the very worst president in the history of the United States since Tom Jefferson put his John Hancock on the Declaration of Independence?

They're hysterical, liars, or insane.

12:54 AM  
Blogger John said...

And about the subject of this post, i.e. the phenomenon known and feared far and wide as the Clinton Curse, it may come off as silly to 21st Century mentalities, but there's something that just ain't right about people whose fortunes soar while the lives and/or reputations and/or ambitions of old friends, political and business partners, girlfriends, even pets, and the entire party that they're affiliated with, to boot-- are destroyed.

1:05 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"Does anyone on here ever have an IDEA to discuss...seems like all silly nastiness to me. This is a phenomenon all over the blogs..."

Silly nastiness??? It is the Clintons who have the display of nastiness. I have a good friend who lived in Arkansas when Clinton was elected governor AND when he went on to be elected POTUS. The good people of that state got to see he and Hillary up close and personal. It wasn't a pretty sight. Nasty, YES! Silly, NO!

btw...Where is your blog, Flintstone? You are relying on others to provide you with a topic of conversation. If you want to talk about something else. DO it! Just don't expect others to do it for you.

"maybe we need to be out of office for a while to try to rethink this mess. McCain is an embarrassment to me and he should be to you to."

McCain may not be perfect, but he is a far cry BETTER than what else is out there at the moment. For one, he is a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. This is a BIG plus in my book.

March 19, 2008

U.S. Senator John McCain
today issued the following statement on District of Columbia v. Heller:


"Today, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments on District of Columbia v. Heller, a landmark case for all Americans who believe as I do that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms. I am proud to have joined in an amicus brief to the Court calling for a ruling in keeping with the clear intent of our Founding Fathers, which ensures the Second Amendment rights of the residents of District of Columbia are reaffirmed."

6:54 AM  
Blogger nanc said...

john needs a sitemeter...

*8]

9:03 AM  
Blogger Z said...

John, just saw your comment to my short story. Thanks very much.
I hate to admit, but I haven't read much Hemingway, and not since school, so I was flattered by any comparison, if you know what I mean.

I'd like to submit it somewhere..just not sure where.

i REALLY appreciate your taking the time to read it and give such a thoughtful response. Thanks.

8:40 AM  
Blogger John said...

My pleasure, Z. I enjoyed it--even though it made me sad. :(

Google short-short story submissions.

8:58 AM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

What "mess," Flint? The mess created by leftist propaganda, insisting day in and day out that Bush has "destroyed" the country, and is "the very worst president in the history of the United States since Tom Jefferson put his John Hancock on the Declaration of Independence?

They're hysterical, liars, or insane.


Seems I hit a nerve here...and got nothing but more silliness in response. Then a lot of...but what about the other guys?
And the denial! No problems here...all made up by the libs!! If we don't acknowlege what this incomparable GW mob has done in our name, we'll never be given another chance. Oh, that Hillary...she's just so ugly...did you see that sneer...face lifts...euthanize...blah blah. Migod, it makes me think everyone fleeing the party has finally given up with good reason. I'm for staying and fighting but if you people are an example of what's left to work with...well, I hate to say it, but that's not something worth saving.It's like you're not even politically oriented, just some little snark club which is not even very good at snark.

2:55 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

John, I smell a troll.

7:52 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6:03 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you flint? Why don't you go back to trolling Sayet! You seem much more comfortable shouting into the wind.

6:05 AM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

Now, we've got a rumored disruption at the convention by Ron Paul forces and a run by Bob Barr on top of everything else. I see these as good developments as we certainly need a shakeup. What I find astonishing is that no one here recognizes that fact and that everyone on this site is so out of touch and oblivious to our problems that you think a questioning voice must be a "troll." I've checked out many conservative blogs over the last two or three weeks and the scene is deplorable...insular little clatches of people making snarky comments about the other side with no constructive insights or ideas for action. It all comes across as very inbred and destructive. I'm afraid we're as burned out as the last pathetic hippies were in the late seventies and early eighties and you know what happened to their movement...it disappeared for thirty years...until we went crazy in our self indulgence and carelessness. Now, I'm afraid, it's their turn all over again...too bad, it didn't have to happen.

9:23 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

One word for Flint:

PROJECTION!

11:30 AM  
Anonymous flint said...

Two words for you, Kelly...inarticulate silliness. You people have nothing here...and you're going backward fast. We're going to suffer the biggest defeat in landslide history and you'll still be here nattering about Mz. Obama's purse or some such inanity. I'm voting Paul or staying home...Barr's one of our infamous family values hypocrites,Paul's all we got. He's not great and he can't win, but at least he's not an embarassment to conservatism.

2:40 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

I've checked out many conservative blogs over the last two or three weeks and the scene is deplorable...insular little clatches of people making snarky comments about the other side with no constructive insights or ideas for action. It all comes across as very inbred and destructive.

LOL! Now you know what it feels like being a Republican, and for the last eight years getting nothing from the other side but "Surrender Dorothy!".

Now go crawl back under Evan's bridge. You're not in Kansas anymore.

4:24 PM  
Anonymous flint said...

Making the evening rounds...nothing here but more defensive stupidity from another loser...if it at least made sense on some level that would be something but you can't even expect that...
LOL! Now you know what it feels like being a Republican, and for the last eight years getting nothing from the other side but "Surrender Dorothy!".

5:12 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

John, I think someone followed you from Sayet's. I must say, you have made an impressive showing over there. I really need to spend more time over there.

8:00 PM  
Blogger John said...

Flintstone said:

"Seems I hit a nerve here...and got nothing but more silliness in response."

Yes. Silliness. Like a troll who wants to be taken seriously as some political sophisticate going by the name of a caveman cartoon character.

Yabbah-dabba-doo, Freddie.

"Then a lot of...but what about the other guys?"

You're confusing the identifying of projection with childish "I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I" finger-pointing.

Projection is subject (A) being riddled with the quality of (x) but denying self-aknowledgement of that and/or deflecting public recognition of it and/or comparitively downplaying its extent by accusing subject (B)--who is usually guilty of possessing a lesser quantity of (x) than (A) is, or may very well even be utterly bereft of it--of possessing (x) squared, or, more hyperbolically, cubed.

Subject (B) could just as well even equal (A) when it comes to the possessed quantity of (x), but that still does not justify (A)'s defamatory accusation of (B)'s possession of any quantity of it as if (A) possessed none of it, or, at most, possessing it in equal measure, which is hypocrisy, but more often than not, the opposite is true, i.e. (A) secretly possessing a full house of (x) up his sleeve and i.o.u. gambling debts to the mob to boot after telling everyone that he doesn't even play cards but publicly humiliating (B) for showing a pair of deuces.

When his own "problem" is discovered, well, "it's just poker."

Projection is not just the calculated hypocrisy of the street-fighting politician but an unconscious, psychological defense mechanism of which the childish or neurotic manifestation in an adult seeking or actually in a position of power based on trust in his sound mental faculties and/or virtuous character simply makes him unfit for that office by its very venting and he or she should be tarred, feathered, and carried out on a rail for debasing that august office by their very presence near or in it.

Those people need therapy (if not exorcism).

"And the denial!"

Yes. Another psychological defense mechanism that works in tandem with projection to absolve the projector of guilt.

"No problems here...all made up by the libs!!"

If not made up, or projected, then certainly hyperbolized to a degree that has little resemblance to reality.

"If we don't acknowlege what this incomparable GW mob has done in our name, we'll never be given another chance."

That's a good example right there of the neuroses mentioned.

"Incomparable"?

That can go both ways. "The worst" is incomparable, but so is the "best."

To describe the times we're in as "incomparable" is acceptable, as there are historic shifts underway involving wealth, technologies, migrations, resource allocations, and population sizes hitherto unseen in human history, and shifts in cultural values which, though hardly new under the sun, are certainly historic and unparallelled in American history.

But to describe Bush and his administration as "incomparable"--presumably "The Very Worst In History Bar None"-- is, at best, historical illiteracy or, at worst, but more likely, hysterical, unhinged derangement.

And what with the Impeached Clinton administration immediately preceding the Bush one, and what with the former racking up an astonishing number of the kind of bad, historic firsts that would make Clinton a far more eligible candidate for "Very Worst President in History" than the virtual Boyscouts of the Bush Administration would, and in consideration of the apparency that the shrillest of Bush-haters are--or at least were, pre-Obama-- staunch, adulating Clinton supporters, it's evident that projection is at work.

Specifying the variables in the definition above:

"Projection is (Clinton) being riddled with the quality of (bad president) but denying self-aknowledgement of that and/or deflecting public recognition of it and/or comparitively downplaying the extent of it by accusing (Bush)--who is usually guilty of possessing an attenuated version of (bad president) compared with (A)'s full possession of it, or even be utterly bereft of it--of possessing (bad president) squared, or, more hyperbolically, cubed:

"THE MOST CORRUPT PRESIDENT EVER IN HUMAN HISTORY!"

Consider the previous administration's records (from http://www.prorev.com/legacy.htm):

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- Second president accused of rape
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

Clinton's a liar, a convicted perjurer. Clinton waged wars for ulterior motives, to cite two examples that have been aggressively played down while simultaneously shoveled on to Bush's head in order to confuse and warp the memory of "The People," level the playing field (by groundlessly raising the decibel level of dissent today to equal and surpass the lingering noise from damning daily headlines of the 1990's), and soften the ground up in time for a Clinton/Democratic recrudesence in 2008.

And it worked.

You would think Bush was Impeached or something while the Impeached Clinton's are enjoying a third run for the White House.

And the same party that enabled and empowered the Clintons have thrown them overboard as damaged goods but are repeating the ruse with Obama.

"Oh, that Hillary...she's just so ugly...did you see that sneer...face lifts...euthanize...blah blah. Migod, it makes me think everyone fleeing the party has finally given up with good reason."

It's the Democrats who emphasize image over substance, and care more about how things "look" than how they are, and like to pretend how down-to-earth and "genuine" they are.

They're making hay of McCain's age--who makes no attempt to hide it via dying his hair and/or getting hair plugs for baldness (the way the vain Joe Biden did, for example)--while Hillary stealthily gets "a little work" done here or there by the best morticians that money can buy, getting her teeth fixed in the express style of youth (the strategic overbite) simply because they can't help but pretend to be something they're not-- i.e. young and fresh with young and fresh ideas, though a crowd of aging 60's Marxists desperately trying to shake out the last drop of JFK mojo from an empty vial that the party still clings to with bony fingers.

"...I'm for staying and fighting but if you people are an example of what's left to work with...well, I hate to say it, but that's not something worth saving."

You sound like one of those phony Republicans/conservatives, like the phony soldiers who try to break morale from the inside.

"It's like you're not even politically oriented, just some little snark club which is not even very good at snark."

"Snark"? That's not a word.

Heyyyy...

You ARE a lefty!

Alice spanked:

"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you flint? Why don't you go back to trolling Sayet! You seem much more comfortable shouting into the wind."

Ah think Ahm in love, pa. :)

Fred Flintstone said:

"Now, we've got a rumored disruption at the convention by Ron Paul forces and a run by Bob Barr on top of everything else."

Those #@#@ Libertarians!!! (just don't tell Phelonius I said that)

"I see these as good developments as we certainly need a shakeup."

Who's "we"?

Barr and Paul are Libertarians.

"What I find astonishing is that no one here recognizes that fact and that everyone on this site is so out of touch and oblivious to our problems that you think a questioning voice must be a 'troll.'"

"Our problems" is that a large chunk of those in the center and on the right have bought the leftist propaganda, hate their own kind, and are going to allow the worst kind of all from seizing control of the American government by sitting out and/or actually voting Democrat or Third Party or Mickey Mouse for the hell of it.

"I've checked out many conservative blogs over the last two or three weeks and the scene is deplorable..."

Interesting, "Freddie" (if that's your *real* name). You're all "we Republicans/conservatives(/Libertarians?) this and "we" that, but the first time you "checked out" conservative blogs was "over the last two or three weeks""

And you found them "deplorable" (which sounds very French ta me; too French...)

That assessment is astonishing given the notoriously uncivil, indecent, petty, venomous, and "snarking" (I think you meant sniping) nature of the erstwhile Clintion-loving, Bush-hating, pro-Obama, and anti-conservative (or, as they like to call themselves, "liberal") blogs.

Either you're a newcomer in the blogosphere (and should therefore spend more time listening than preaching) or you are, in fact, a sniveling lefty in full projection mode.

"...insular little clatches of people making snarky (sic) comments about the other side with no constructive insights or ideas for action."

You just projected the quintessential m.o. of the Left.

You are so busted.

"It all comes across as very inbred and destructive."

"Inbred," eh? M-hm. That's something a lefty would say because of the stereotype he has in his mind of conservatives being incestual backwoods rednecks.

"I'm afraid we're as burned out as the last pathetic hippies were in the late seventies and early eighties and you know what happened to their movement..."

I do. They came back with a vengeance in 1992, suffered severe setbacks thanks to the Clintons, and are ready for a redux in 2008 with Obama thanks to insidious, double-agent demoralizers like you.

"it disappeared for thirty years...until we went crazy in our self indulgence and carelessness."

The "self-indulgence" and "carelessness" of the left--once attaining power-- is why the Democrats lost the last two elections and why conservatives voted in record numbers in 2004.

The Left spent the last four years whining and poisoning the political atmosphere since and the Bush Administration has been careless about countering the propaganda, and conservatives have been careless about paying attention and recognizing it as propaganda propagated for the specific purpose of returning themselves to power.

"Now, I'm afraid, it's their turn all over again..."

Democracy has flaws, I'm afraid, a main one being that excellence is not egalitarian and is often mutilated so everyone can get a piece of it and end up with nothing but pieces of it, or a shoddy substitute with a nice haircut.

Kelly said:

"One word for Flint:

PROJECTION!"

My thoughts exactly.

What gives, Fred?

Flint said:

"Two words for you, Kelly...inarticulate silliness."

You describe one word that clearly, effectively, and emphatically identifies the evident psychodynamic nature of your charges as "inarticulate silliness?"

That's just being silly. And inarticulate.

Why, that's PROJECTION!

"You people..."

Oh, it's "you people," now, is it?

What happened to "we," Fred?

"...have nothing here...and you're going backward fast."

Don't look at me. Tell McCain.

"We're going to suffer the biggest defeat in landslide history..."

Again, don't look at me.

"...and you'll still be here nattering about Mz. Obama's purse or some such inanity."

The speculation that Hillary is getting plastic surgery in consideration of her denial of it in the free-for-all of the commentary section can not be characterized as characteristically fixating on "inanities" like handbags (though a real man knows that a lady's handbag is almost as important as her shoes, Fred, but I guess you wouldn't know too much about shoes living in Bedrock, anyway).

"I'm voting Paul or staying home...Barr's one of our infamous family values hypocrites,Paul's all we got. He's not great and he can't win, but at least he's not an embarassment to conservatism."

Well, Flint, I suppose it wasn't fair calling you an infiltrating subversive phony conservative, but let me just say that often in life we're presented with two bad choices and we must choose the lesser of two evils (three, in your case, since the "evil" of Paul is that he has, like, a point-00000000000000001% chance of winning), and McCain, however chimeric a conservative he comes off as to many, is nevertheless a Douglas MacArthur compared to the newest Kennedy adoptee Obama.

It seems all you're doing is whining and resigning yourself to defeat, comforting yourself by throwing away your vote on Ron Paul (who's too isolationist for this day and age of globalization).

Alice Gorable (quoting Flintstone):

"I've checked out many conservative blogs over the last two or three weeks and the scene is deplorable...insular little clatches of people making snarky comments about the other side with no constructive insights or ideas for action. It all comes across as very inbred and destructive."

Alice:

"LOL! Now you know what it feels like being a Republican, and for the last eight years getting nothing from the other side but 'Surrender Dorothy!'.

Now go crawl back under Evan's bridge. You're not in Kansas anymore."

I'd do what she says, Fred.

In fact, I'd do ANYTHING she says. :)

Flint said:

"Making the evening rounds...nothing here but more defensive stupidity from another loser..."

Now see here, Fred, I'd challenge you to a duel of fisticuffs for talking that way to Alice if we were face to face, but that's unneccessary since by her Classically-cultivated mind, magnetic aesthetics, and bright attitude, come what may, she is self-evidently not a "loser."

Now let's hear the words from a "winner" like you (which reveals much about your own mind, self-image, and outlook):

"...until we went crazy in our self indulgence and carelessness...Now, I'm afraid, it's their turn all over again...We're going to suffer the biggest defeat in landslide history...I'm voting for Paul or just staying home."

Now who are you calling a "loser," Fred?

Speak for yourself.

11:57 PM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

I'll be voting for one of these guys...I think Barr, but not sure yet...
Fox commentator: Ron Paul revolt could be 'disaster' for Republicans

Rep. Ron Paul is still in the GOP race and even drew 16% of the vote in the recent Pennsylvania Republican primary. Now his supporters are planning to stage a "revolt" at the Republican National Convention in September, possibly with the aim of securing Paul a prime time speaking slot.

Conservative radio talk show host Mike Gallagher told the hosts of Fox and Friends on Tuesday, "There is no question that this could be a major headache for John McCain."

"John McCain would be well-served to kind of reach out and give him an olive branch at the convention," Gallagher continued. "Let him speak, give him a role, because if these people are disrespected -- you know, this, combined with Bob Barr's announcement that Barr now is running as a Libertarian, is going to just take votes away from John McCain and could be a disaster for the Republican Party."

10:01 AM  
Anonymous flint rocks said...

Sorry, I meant Paul, not Barr. Though, if Paul does not formally run, I will vote Barr. Morally repugnant as he is to me, a little hypocrisy is better than the insane recklessness of McBush...bomb, bomb, bombbomb Iran...migod...what monstrous twilight have we entered?

10:13 AM  
Blogger John said...

Listen to yourself:

"I'll be voting for one of these guys...I think (Paul), but not sure yet..."

Immediately thereafter you quote:

"'Fox commentator: Ron Paul revolt could be 'disaster' for Republicans...Conservative radio talk show host Mike Gallagher told the hosts of Fox and Friends on Tuesday, 'There is no question that this could be a major headache for John McCain.'"

Then:

"Sorry, I meant Paul, not Barr. Though, if Paul does not formally run, I will vote Barr. Morally repugnant as he is to me, a little hypocrisy is better..."

Flintstone, what's with all of your "we?"

You don't represent me, and your claim of being a Libertarian is suspect.

There's a long-time resident Libertarian here who is disappointed in the direction the Republican Party has taken but, if I may speak for Phelonius, he would vote for Paul on principle, not with spiteful intent of spelling "disaster" for the Republicans and enabling a Democratic win.

12:43 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

Flintstone....did you take the "World's Shortest Political Exam"? I am curious where you fall on that. I fell almost dead center at the top of the graph.

1:54 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

Sorry....forgot to provide a link to that for anyone that has not taken it and is curious. Just go here and give it a try.

3:05 PM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

Haven't taken the test yet...but I'm not so much a libertarian as a conservative...that used to mean something other than just supporting any pack of criminals who call themselves Republican. You guys are mostly just mindless political hack/partisans who seem willing to accept any crime your party commits. I'd vote for Barr or Paul as a protest against what this party has become...a message that we won't accept it anymore. Who is we?...look at all the Republicans who are fed up with this mess. We're headed for the wrong side of a landslide and I consider that a good thing because it'll make us rebuild with some integrity.

3:31 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

Well, Flinty old bean, I am not sure how to respond to that one. Being a Libertarian and, in fact, one that is running for office under that Party, I am not aware of the criminals and crimes you are talking about. That being said, I am likely to vote for Barr out of PRINCIPLE, as I really do believe that the LP platform is one that I agree with and support. I do think that a Presidency under McCain would be a lot less dangerous than either of the two Democratic contenders.

You should take the exam, and if you find that you agree with the LP, then switch parties. That way you do not have to be angry with a party that you feel has disenfranchised you, but rather you can support a party that you maybe could agree with.

3:54 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

I took the test and am just a little right and down from Phelonius...still in Libertarian boundaries. Still, when considering the alternatives, I cannot put my vote where it will benefit those I do NOT want in office. While I espouse to the idea of idealist thinking when it comes down to it, I tend to do that which is practical.

Back in 1992 when Bush, Sr. was running for re-election there was a third party candidate by the name of Perot. You may remember him. My dad voted for him.

Enough people voted for him to make a difference in the final election results. Bill Clinton was handed the Presidency with less than half the popular vote. But because of the winner takes all rule with the Electral college delegates in each state BC won.

After that, my dad always felt (with regret) that he had, in a sense, voted for Clinton.

I would love to vote for a candidate based on principle. But I know that what you want and what you get are not always in line.

McCain is not my personal favorite. But I would rather have him in the Oval Office than either of the Democratic contenders.

At this point in the political process are there really any other options?

4:14 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

The LP gets that response all the time, and the mainstream press both right and left are perfectly happy to bolster that image. The reasons are obvious.

People take a look (most of the time but certainly not all of the time) and say to themselves...."Gee! I should vote the way I believe, but I am afraid that something bad will happen as a result." No major 2 party system is ever going to relinquish their mutual stranglehold on power without a fight. The way I see it, there is not going to be a 3rd Party option until people DO begin to vote with their conscience and their intellect and not out of an emotional response of fear.

But we are patient. This last year the LP saw a 23% growth in the paying membership, and we have record numbers of people on ballots in all 50 states of the Union. Time will tell, but I am happy to support a Party that I think represents a kind of change that could make a real difference, and not just as a set of platitudes.

5:23 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

My preferred candidates is not even in the running any more. I would have been very happy with Thompson or Romney.

Romney dropped from the race because he did not want to split the party and hand our country over to socialists. Yes, the numbers began to speak that he could not get the nomination, but he could very well have hung on to divide the party even further.

We are a country founded on the principles of compromise. The Constitution of the United States is a major document of compromise. There are issues, however, that I will not give over to compromise. I do not want a country that is run as a socialist state. I do want a president who will stand behind the 2nd Amendment.

The question we must ask is: Are we willing to have Obama or Hillary as POTUS if the Republican party is split?

I AM voting my conscience. My conscience will not accept either of them as POTUS.

6:36 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

BTW...Phelonius...you have a way of turning a discussion into something far more productive. :)

6:58 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

that last comment of mine didn't come out quite the way I wanted it to...

Phel..you did a good job turning this around. :)

7:15 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

Well, perhaps I can phrase it this way and get some mileage out of it:

Let's look at the last two presidential races and see what we find. This country is always at a hair's breadth of going either democratic or Republican. The reasons for that are many, but I posit this. It is NOT because almost exactly half of the nation is far right and exactly half of the nation is far left. Some are, but not the majority.

The LP is going to remain more centered around socially liberal but fiscally conservative republicans for the moment as far as converts go. For example, the LP maintains that it is not the government's business to tell who should get married to who, as long as it does not involve minors. The LP does not believe that the immigration laws that we have in place make any sense at all (tall fences and WIDE gates make sense), and that government should not be in the business of deciding what states should have abortion and what states should not, just like the death penalty laws.

The other planks that will now offend the democrat die-hards are that the government, in and of itself, is a bloated titan with an insatiable appetite for your money and mine. A lot of Republicans have fallen into this description lately. It is a crime against our future children that this government continues to spend money banking on the productivity of our children and their children to the tune of a 9 trillion dollar debt. The government is involved in social programming through the department of education to the tune of billions of dollars in spending without teaching our own Dallas graduates to graduate with anything beyond an 8th grade reading level for 75% of them. Give the schools back to the states. For the love of God, let us drill our own oil wells here in this country and quit begging other countries to increase their oil production when we will not. Let us make gasoline producing plants. Let us get the hell out of the middle east and quit sending our young people all over the planet unless it really makes sense in the short run (and long run). We still are paying for the salvation of south Korea, for example. Other countries need to fight their battles on their own.

This is the short list. Now let's talk about what people are afraid of by voting a different strain of politician. You have all been told that you have no choice. You either vote one way or another, and you should feel bad if you vote any other way. People like Fintstone here, even though he expresses his views with some acrimony and ad hominem, which is not necessary, actually is expressing a deep feeling that many voters are getting around to expressing. This has been an interesting year for primaries, no? On the one hand you have two die-hard socialists fighting over the democratic candidacy, and on the right you have a pseudo-conservative global warming robot wanting the Republican candidacy.

It is only a matter of time before a third party gains a much stronger hold than the old Ross Perot types ever have dreamed of having. It will surprise people that voters are not stupid when it comes to their pocket books and their national trillion dollar debt. It will not be long before having a debt-centered economy will be viable and people awaken again to the sheer economic power that this nation has at its finger-tips.

Heh.....that is my rant....apologies to the owner of this fine and good web site.

8:16 PM  
Anonymous flint said...

The LP is going to remain more centered around socially liberal but fiscally conservative republicans for the moment as far as converts go. For example, the LP maintains that it is not the government's business to tell who should get married to who, as long as it does not involve minors. The LP does not believe that the immigration laws that we have in place make any sense at all (tall fences and WIDE gates make sense), and that government should not be in the business of deciding what states should have abortion and what states should not, just like the death penalty laws.

The other planks that will now offend the democrat die-hards are that the government, in and of itself, is a bloated titan with an insatiable appetite for your money and mine. A lot of Republicans have fallen into this description lately. It is a crime against our future children that this government continues to spend money banking on the productivity of our children and their children to the tune of a 9 trillion dollar debt.


Much of this sounds like what conservatism used to mean...I agree with a lot of it. The modern conservative is utterly departed from these principles.

10:18 PM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

However, Phelonius, you lost all credibility with your pretended oblivion about the massive corruption that has riddled the party from top to bottom...felonious stuff, you know Phel....

10:39 PM  
Anonymous flint said...

I could post the list(s) but I'm not sure there's enough room here.

10:40 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

I want to make a sideline comment here for a bit.

Phelonius said, "People like Fintstone here, even though he expresses his views with some acrimony and ad hominem, which is not necessary, actually is expressing a deep feeling that many voters are getting around to expressing."

Flint, you will get a lot farther with your comments if you don't come into a blog spewing ad hominem and acrimony toward the owner of the blog or its regular subscribers.

I could not tell you from the next troll. John, quite frankly, assumed you to be a moonbat troll. Your reactions were strikingly similar.

Now, we learn, that your thinking was more in line with that of Phelonius. Yet, I listened to what he had to say. The ensuing discussion was one of thought and deep introspection.

Now, even with a confirmation that he sees things much the way you do you find it necessary to be combative with him.

The nature of a troll is to incite anger and produce flames on a blog that is not your own. Your comments have produced such a response.

I would suggest that people will take you more seriously if you avoid this kind of behavior.

You have read what John thinks of Libertarians. Yet, Phelonius was able to come in here and present his argument in such a way as to produce a civil discussion.

His acrimonious-free comments have actually made me think about whether I really ought to vote for Libertarian instead of a Republican.

Your comments, in the future, will determine whether the owner of this blog, "just some guy" or anyone else who comes by here will really listen to what you have to say or whether they toss your comments by the side as just coming from a raving ranting lunatic.

You decide.

I look forward to an honest open discussion.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous flint said...

Flint, you will get a lot farther with your comments if you don't come into a blog spewing ad hominem and acrimony toward the owner of the blog or its regular subscribers.


God...do you people see yourselves at all...the whole thread was nothing but the silliest, personal petty viciousness when I got here and introduced a little substance...starting out with "euthanizing" Hillary and descending from there. I get a terrible feeling when I see no one left in the party but people like yourselves who, I believe, never had any shred of political understanding in the first place. You all seem to be the type who got in the party for very confused, knee jerk, "cultural" issues and hang on mindlessly no matter how far down we go. DON'T preach to me about what you are much worse at.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

Now, even with a confirmation that he sees things much the way you do you find it necessary to be combative with him.

The massive corruption in the party from top to bottom is a huge issue, especially with honest Repbulicans who seek to make this party the great thing it once was. It is IMPOSSIBLE for honest people to not be fully aware of it. This little group has apparently become so weak by not confronting realities head on that any variation from the standard line here is seen as combative or troll like. This party needs tough, head on debate on our problems...if you can't deal with that, then you're only an anchor.

10:28 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

I could post the list(s) but I'm not sure there's enough room here.

You mean the one that ignores every crime ever committed by a Democrat? What good is a scorecard that only records one team's errors? Oh yeah, that's right... that's the new "progressive" way of recording history.

5:36 PM  
Blogger Phelonius said...

OK, Flinty, lets go at it.

Now, it seems to me that you do not understand the English language.

Allow me to retort.

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a card-wielding paying member and a candidate in the Libertarian Party.

You think I do not consider politicians in DC to be corrupt? Far from it. If I lose credibility because I am not aware that there are Libertarians that are also corrupt then you have misunderstood me. So far, though, and to be honest, those that are have escaped my radar. You continually use language like "you people" and "can you people not see yourselves."

Thank you, but I am an individual, and I would appreciate it if you would address me as an individual the same way that I address you.

If you are a Republican, please be aware that I am not a Republican. I have close ties to some that are in the more conservative elements of the Republican Party, but I am not in that party. I do happen to respect the views of the people on this blog even when I do not agree with them. I have had similar relationships with people on blogs that are considered a bit "left." What I do not like is rudeness in a man.

I won't tolerate it.

Nobody here has ever done you any wrong, but you cry like a spoiled child and insult people here that you do not even know.

Just stop it. Be a man, for the love of God, and speak politely in civilized society.

Now, you want to talk about Libertarian planks, or, as you put it "actual ideas," then please, by all means, let us have a good public discourse.

You want to criticize me for having
a sense of humor and talk about how Hilary has become a pain in the butt for the Democratic Party, then criticize me for having a sense of humor. Some people actually have one of those, you know. The proof is that John Edwards just endorsed Barak Obama, so I was not wrong in saying that the Dems are terribly tired of her.

6:04 PM  
Blogger John said...

"Progressive." That's about as true a descriptive as "liberal."

They're regressive fascists.

6:04 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

They keep Ixion's wheel a spinnin', all in the name of "progress"...

5:07 AM  
Anonymous flint said...

This is what I mean...from NewsMax, so spare me the lib media nonsense. While you chuckleheads cluck on about how Hillary looks, the whole thing is falling apart. Time to get REAL and understand why long time GOP stalwarts are sick of the show that the present crop of corrupt, incompetent nutcases have done to the party. They're traitors to the conservative cause and you sit here making excuses for them like you never had a clue what conservatism was all about in the first place...a mindless party hack is what almost everyone of you is. See...it's not the party...it's the ideology we have to protect.GOP Loses Congressional Election, Faces Bloodbath in Nov.

By: Newsmax Staff Article

On Tuesday night, Republicans lost a Republican congressional district in a special election in Mississippi.

Party insiders fear the loss may be just another sign of a coming bloodbath for congressional Republicans this November.

Democrat Travis Childers’ victory over Republican Greg Davis in Mississippi’s 1st Congressional District yesterday dealt the GOP its third straight loss of a solid Republican district to insurgent Democrats in this year’s special elections.

With nearly all precincts reporting, Prentiss County Chancery Clerk Childers held a 54 percent to 46 percent lead over Southaven Mayor Davis.

The seat was vacated by Republican Roger Wicker when he was appointed to fill the Senate seat that Republican Trent Lott vacated when he retired.

Wicker had held the seat since 1994, never winning re-election with less than 63 percent of the vote, the Washington Post reported.

The district, a Republican stronghold, had backed George Bush with 59 percent of the vote in 2000 and 62 percent in 2004.

Childers’ victory hands the Democrats their second special election victory in the South in less than two weeks. On May 3, Democratic State Rep. Donald Cazayoux Jr. defeated former Republican State Legislator Woody Jenkins in a Louisiana district that had been in GOP hands for 33 years.

Richard Baker had vacated the seat when he resigned in February.

And in March, Democrat Bill Foster defeated Republican Jim Oberweis in an Illinois district that former Republican House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert had held for nearly 21 years.

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Chris Van Hollen said in a statement: “After three consecutive special election defeats in districts that President Bush twice won easily, it is abundantly clear the American people have turned their back and shut the door on the special interest-driven agenda of the Republican Party. There is no district that is safe for Republican candidates.”

National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Cole acknowledged that the GOP faces a challenge and “must undertake bold efforts to define a forward-looking agenda that offers the kind of positive change voters are looking for.”


© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

9:21 AM  
Anonymous the rock said...

You mean the one that ignores every crime ever committed by a Democrat? What good is a scorecard that only records one team's errors?

No, I mean a list of the big time corrupt criminals in the GOP. You can try til you're blue in the face to make a comparable list of Dem criminals and you won't be able to match the GOP list even one to ten. I say this as a man sick of what they are doing to my party...and you should be outraged too. These people have been in the news...high level people like DeLay and an endless array of others unlike anything we've seen in history. The Dems have a few...the usual no., but nothing ike the corruption wave that has hit our party. No one should be more outraged at these betrayals than us, but all we've got left are people like you who seem to want the corruption to continue...well, the rest of the world doesn't work that way and we are being discredited and all the signs point to some bad times ahead. With people like you making excuses and telling lies, why should these fools ever reform?

9:32 AM  
Anonymous flint said...

Phelonius says: Nobody here has ever done you any wrong, but you cry like a spoiled child and insult people here that you do not even know.


What? Gee, I didn't know you were the whole show here. I'm addressing the Republicans here who have their heads in the sand regarding what's happening to the GOP. We have been BETRAYED. Our beliefs have been twisted into unrecognizable parodies of themselves. We have been tools for the corrupt. And it's time we woke up and took this party back for CONSERVATISM. The fact is that these people have done me great wrong. They're the type who've enabled the takeover of the GOP and I cannot pretend to respect any of the silly, vicious nattering that goes on here when what we need is serious introspection and courageous and constructive self doubt as to what we've let ourselves become.

9:46 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"you sit here making excuses for them like you never had a clue what conservatism was all about in the first place..."

Who said we didn't know what conservatism meant? What it means to me is very different than what it means to the Huckabee types, for example. He is part of what is wrong with the Republican party. He professes to be Christian and to represent the Christian Right, yet he is as corrupt as they come. Enough people voted for him in the primaries to keep Mitt Romney's numbers down. This is why we have McCain as the Republican's favorite.

You tell me that I don't see the problems in the party. OH I see them loud and clear!

Do you want Obama to win the general election? Voting for McCain is a matter of voting for the lesser of two evils.

If the Libertarian party had someone who could give Obama a serious challenge I would go that direction. As it is, I know very little about the LP Presidential candidate. I am not alone in that.

Now back to the subject of conservatism. Being conservative to me means allowing businesses to run their businesses without a lot of government interference. It means allowing market forces to run there course. It means that I don't have to pay my hard earned cash to the government who then decides what is best for me. It means having a choice about my health care. It means being able to practice my religion. It means being able to pray when I want to. Conservatism, to me, is pro family. It means the government lets me teach my family how I see fit. Yet, it promotes morality.

This country was founded on religious principles. We have strayed from that and we wonder why our politicians are corrupt. We have strayed from that because of the LIBERAL left that has a strong hold on the media and Hollywood and our education system.

So here we are. The product of listening to the left for too long. We here in this blog and many others like it have HAD IT with the left telling us that we cannot have a prayer at a high school graduation, that we cannot speak of God in public and that we have to accept immorality as the norm.


"We have been BETRAYED. Our beliefs have been twisted into unrecognizable parodies of themselves. We have been tools for the corrupt. And it's time we woke up and took this party back for CONSERVATISM. The fact is that these people have done me great wrong. They're the type who've enabled the takeover of the GOP and I cannot pretend to respect any of the silly, vicious nattering that goes on here when what we need is serious introspection and courageous and constructive self doubt as to what we've let ourselves become. "

As I said. You think that we don't see this. We are trying to make the best of a very bad situation.

10:10 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

You can try til you're blue in the face to make a comparable list of Dem criminals and you won't be able to match the GOP list even one to ten.

LOL! YOU really are a joke! It's 100 to one D to R. So GTF outta here, you Dhimmi-troll faggot.

10:26 AM  
Blogger FJ said...

I'll bet pseudo-conservative troll's got $100 bucks riding on "Bustin' Brown" to Win in the Preakness.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous flintstone said...

Someone who sounds like they've been Gored says
LOL! YOU really are a joke! It's 100 to one D to R. So GTF outta here, you Dhimmi-troll faggot.


Weeeeell...how do you like that polite and reasoned response, Phelonius, to someone who is trying to face up to the very real problems we're facing? Kelly, on the other hand, managed a very sane and realistic response, although there were a few things even there I thought were inconsistent. Now, here's the list...all these can be verified, and in fact, we know of many of them already.
These are just the perverts we've been supporting...the list of corrupt ones is much longer...I will post it for you later if you wish...you're a hopeless apologist... I challenge anyone to find or name even a small percentage of this list among Democrats or Libertarians...this list should disgust any person who has a pride in the great traditions of the GOP...



This is a just partial list not recently updated...

Senator Larry Craig...well, you know...
Sen. Vitter...spanked in diapers by his prostitute...
* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.


* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

* Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor. we’re just getting started, kids.

* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for attempted rape of a juvenile.

* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

* Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

* Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a juvenile.

* Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

* Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

* Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges.

* Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

* Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

* Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a minor working as a congressional page.

* Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

* Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger had sex with a 16 year old when he was 28.

* Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

* Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

* Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with a juvenile and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

* Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

* Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

* Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was arrested after allegedly offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

* Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

* Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

* Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

* Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

* Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

* Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to minors under 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

* Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.

* Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a child.

* Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

* Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

* Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

* Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

* Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

* Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

* Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

* Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

* Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a “good military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

* Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

* Republican director of the “Young Republican Federation” Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

* Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was charged with rape for allegedly paying a 15-year old girl for sex. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

UPDATE: oooh, here’s an even better list (links at original post)


Edison Misla Aldarondo, Republican legislator, was sentenced to 13 years in prison for molestation of his daughter and her friend for eight-year period starting when they were 9. [1]

Randal David Ankeney, Republican activist, arrested on suspicion of sexual assault on a child with force. He faces 6 charges related to getting a 13-year-old girl stoned on pot and then having sex with her. [2] Also accused of sexually assaulting another girl. [3]

Jim Bakker, televangelist with Pat Robertson at Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting network. Committed adultery with Jessica Hahn [4] and then used charitable donations to pay her hush money[5]. Fellow televangelists say he’s gay. [6][7] Indicted on 23 federal charges of fraud, tax evasion, and racketeering [8].

Merrill Robert Barter, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. [9]

Robert Bauman, Republican congressman and anti-gay activist, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. [10]

Parker J. Bena, Republican activist and Bush Elector, pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography (including children as young as 3 years old) on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000. [11]

Louis Beres, chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. 3 of his family members accuse him of molesting them when they were pre-teens. [12]

Howard L. Brooks, Republican legislative aide and advisor to a California assemblyman, was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. [13]

John Bolton Bush’s appointee ambassador to United Nations, corroborated allegations that Mr. Bolton’s first wife, Christina Bolton, was forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State Department. [14]

Mike Bowers Former State Attorney General, prosecuted the famous Bowers vs. Hardwick case, based on Georgia anti-sodomy laws. Admitted to a 10-year adulterous affair. [15]

Andrew Buhr, Republican politician, former committeeman for Hadley Township Missouri, was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. [16]

Ted Bundy campaigned for the Republican Party. Infamous serial rapist who murdered 16 women. [17]

Jim Bunn Congressman of Oregon: With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then left his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll with a salary of $97,500. [18]

John Allen Burt, Republican anti-abortion activist, convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home for troubled girls that he ran.[19]

Dan Burton, Republican Congressman who, while married, fathered a child by another woman. [20]

George W. Bush, Republican president, accused in a criminal complaint and lawsuit of raping Margie Schoedinger, who later committed suicide. Accused by Tammy Phillips, a former stripper quoted in the National Enquirer in 2000 saying she had an affair with Bush that had ended in 1999.[21][22]

John Butler, Republican activist, was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.[23]

Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition and its “family values.” Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife. Said “We can’t forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky.” In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a prostitute and attempted to flee the scene.[24]

Helen Chenoweth, Congresswoman (R-Id.). Admitted to a six-year adulterous affair with a married associate. In 1995, Chenoweth had denied the affair when asked about it by The Spokane Spokesman-Review, but now she claims a pardon from a higher authority: “I’ve asked for God’s forgiveness, and I’ve received it,” she revealed. [25]

Keola Childs, Republican County Councilman, pleaded guilty to sexual assault in the first degree for molesting a male child.[26]

Kevin Coan, Republican St. Louis Election Board official, arrested and charged with trying to buy sex from a 14-year-old girl whom he met on the Internet.[27]

Dan Crane, Republican Congressman, married, father of six. Received a 100% “Morality Rating” from Christian Voice. Had sex with a minor working as a congressional page. [28]
On July 20, the House voted for censure Crane, the first time that censure had been imposed for sexual misconduct.[29]

Paul Crouch Televangelist, Former President of Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). Paid $425,000 in hush money in an attempt to cover up a gay affair.[30]

Richard A. Dasen Sr., Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, convicted of sexual abuse of children, promotion of prostitution and several counts of solicitation, enough to add up to a sentence of 126 years in prison. [31][32][33]

Richard A. Delgaudio, Republican fundraiser and Bush pioneer, was found guilty of child porn charges. [34]

Peter Dibble, Republican legislator pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl. [35]

Nicholas Elizondo, Director of the Young Republican Federation molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison. [36]

Larry Dale Floyd, Republican Constable in Denton County, Texas Precinct Two. Arrested for allegedly crossing state lines to have sex with an 8-year old child and was charged with 7 related offenses. Age 62 at time of arrest. [37][38]

John Fund, of the Wall Street Journal, a prominent anti-abortion columnist and GOP fund raiser. He lost his position after it was revealed that he impregnated the daughter of an old girlfriend and then encouraged her to abort his child. [39]

Jeff Gannon Partisan blogger with no journalism credentials and a fake name who got invited to Bush’s Press conferences. Is also a pimp and a gay prostitute.[40]

Jack W. Gardner, Republican Councilman, had been convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl. when the Republican Party, knowing of these crimes, put him on the ballot.[41]

Richard Gardner, a Nevada State Representative (R), admitted to molesting his two daughters. [42]

Newt Gingrich, married three times. Gingrich campaign worker Anne Manning admitted that she gave Newt oral sex while he was still married to his first wife. Informed one wife he was filing for divorce while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer treatments.[43]

Philip Giordano, Republican mayor sentenced to 37 years for forcing two 8 and 10 year old girls to perform oral sex on him in his City Hall office. [44][45]

Rudy Giuliani, had an adulterous affair.[46][47]

Matthew Glavin, president and CEO of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, big player in the Clinton Impeachment, and many anti-gay jihads, has been arrested multiple times for public indeceny, one time fondling the crotch of the officer who was arresting him. [48]

Mark A. Grethen, Republican activist, convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.[49]

Jon Grunseth, Republican businessman and candidate for Minnesota governor, withdrew his candidacy after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter, and tried to grope one. [50]

Dr. W. David Hager Bush appointee, member of Focus on the Family’s Physician Resource Council, player in movement to ban the morning-after-pill. Had an adulterous affair, before divorcing his wife he sexually abused her, including sodomizing her in her sleep.[51]

Mark Harris, Republican city councilman who is described as a “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.[52]

John Hathaway, Republican Senate candidate, was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media. [53]

Howard Scott Heldreth, anti-abortion activist who gained fame during the Shiavo media-circus, was convicted of two charges of raping a child in 2002. [54]

Mike Hintz, a First Assembly of God youth pastor, introduced by Bush on the campaign trail, and promoted his policies.[55] Says he supports Bush’s values. Two months later, this married father of four turned himself into police, charged with the sexual exploitation of a child. [56][57]

Neal Horsley has called for the arrest of all homosexuals. Admitted on the Fox News Radio’s The Alan Colmes Show, that he’s had sex with mules.[58][59]

Tim Hutchinson, divorced his wife of 29 years to marry a congressional aide he was having an affair with.[60]

Henry Hyde, Judge who oversaw Clinton’s impeachment proceedings, prominent opponent of reproductive rights, who had an extramarital affair with a woman who was married and had three children, during the course of which she and her husband were divorced. [61]

Don Haidl, Assistant Sheriff of Orange Country, in violation of California’s rape shield law, led a smear campaign against the child his son poisoned and then violently gang-raped on videotape, adding up to 24 felony counts. He said that his son “acted accordingly” because the child was a “slut”. [62]

Paul Ingram, Republican Party leader of Thurston County, Washington, pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.[63]

Earl Kimmerling, sentenced to 40 years in prison after he confessed to molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.[64]

Lewis Libby, former Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. In 1996 published a novel containing bizaree sexual content, including beastiality and pedophillia. [65]
Rush Limbaugh, triple-divorcee[66], 30-pill a day drug addict. [67]

Bob Livingston, former Congressman (R-La.) resigned from the House in the wake of revelations about his past adultery.
Donald Lukens, Republican Congressman, was found guilty of having sex with a minor - a girl he was accused of sleeping with since she was 13. [68]

Pat McPherson, Douglas County Election Commissioner. Arrested for fondling a 17-year-old girl. [69]

Jon Matthews, Republican talk show host in Houston, was indicted for indecency with a child, including exposing his genitals to a girl under the age of 17. [70]

Jeff Miller, (R-Cleveland), Senate Republican Caucus Chairman in Tennessee and the sponsor of Tennessee’s Marriage Protection act, getting divorced (as of April 2005) because of an affair he was having with an office aid. Miller described the Tennessee Marriage Protection Act as a means of preserving the sanctity of marriage. He opposed an amendment, however, which stated that “Adultery is deemed to be a threat to the institution of marriage and contrary to public policy in Tennessee.” [71][72]

Nicholas Morency, Republican anti-abortion activist, pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor [73].

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman (R-NC), describes herself as a “devout Christian.” Committed adultery with a married man.
Bill O’Reilly Right-wing conservative talk show host on Fox News, sued for sexual harrassment by his producer.
Bob Packwood, Senator (R-Ore.), resigned in 1995 under a threat of public senate hearings related to 10 female ex-staffers accusing him of sexual harassment.
Jeffrey Patti, Republican Committee Chairman, was arrested for distributing what experts call “some of the most offensive material in the child pornography world” - a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped. [74]

John Paulk, lied about prowling for gay sex while running a fundamentalist group to cure gays.
Brent Parker Utah State Representetive. Arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover officer posing as a male prostitute. [75][76]

John E. Peterson, Congressman (R-Pa), accused of sexual harassment and creation of a hostile work environment by six women. Peterson has refused to admit a crime, saying only “I may have been an excessive hugger.”
Harvey Pitt, SEC Chief under George W. Bush until he was forced to resign in 2002. Worked for New Frontier Media, a firm which distributed teen sex videos.
Mark Pazuhanich, Republican judge, pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation. [77]

George Roche III, carried on a 19 year affair with his son’s wife, while serving as president of , which “emphasizes the importance of the common moral truths that bind all Americans, while recognizing the importance of religion for the maintenance of a free society.”
Beverly Russell, County Chairman of the Christian Coalition, sexually molested his step-daughter, Susan Smith, who later drowned her two children. [78][79]

Jack Ryan, 2004 Republican nominee for US Senate from Illinois, pressured his wive, actress Jeri Ryan, to have sex with other men. Tricked her into visiting sex clubs, where he asked her to have sex with him while others watched.[80]

Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman, currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his office. The medical examiner, who had his license revoked in for falsifying information in an autopsy report, and suspended in for six years, ruled the case an accident, after giving conflicting information about her injuries. He said he lied about them because “The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head injury.”

Ed Schrock, two-term republican congressman, with a 92% approval rating from the Christian Coalition. Cosponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment, consistently opposed gay rights. Married, with wife and kids. Withdrew his candidacy for a third term after tapes of him soliciting for gay sex were circulated.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger, right wing conservative radio host. Promotes family values, estranged from her mother, opposes birth control, has had her tubes tied, espouses saving oneself for marriage, admits to having had sex before she was married, opposes adultery, has committed adultery while she was married, and has slept with a married man, opposes divorce, is divorced and remarried, has posed for nude photos which are available online.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Republican governor, had sex with a 16 year old when he was 28.
John Scmitz, right-wing republican congressman, who had had his committee chairship taken away from him in the California State Senate after issuing a press release attacking Jews, feminists and gays. Forced out of office in 1982 for having an adulterous affair and fathering two children out of wedlock with one of his students. He was caught because his baby was admitted to hospital for having hair tied so tightly around his penis that it was almost severed. His daughter, Mary Kay LeTourneau, was convicted of having an adulterous affair with one of her students, and giving birth to two of his children. [81]

Larry Jack Schwarz, Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, fired after child pornography was found in his possession. [82] With his political career over, he went to work in the hard-core pornography industry for Platinum X Pictures, owned by his daughter, porn starlet Jewel De’Nyle (Stephany Schwarz).[83]

Jim Stelling, Seminole County Republican Party chairman who believes in “family values”, as he told a judge. Filed a defamation lawsuit againt Nancy Goettman, a former county GOP executive committee member, for falsely claiming he had been married six times. Stelling has been married 5 times. [84]

Don Sherwood, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives. Eventually admitted to an affar with a woman 30 years younger than him, after she accused him of physical abuse and attempting to choke her. [85]

Tom Shortridge. Republican campaign consultant, was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl. [86]

Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr., Republican City Councilman, pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison. [87][88]

Craig J. Spence, Republican lobbyist, organized orgies with child prostitutes in the White House during the 1980s. [89][90]

Jimmy Swaggart, televangelist, said during a sermon “I’m trying to find the correct name for it … this utter absolute, asinine, idiotic stupidity of men marrying men. … I’ve never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry. And I’m gonna be blunt and plain; if one ever looks at me like that, I’m gonna kill him and tell God he died.” Had an affair with a prostitute.

David Swartz, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison. [91]

Randall Terry, Right to Life activist, founder of Operation Rescue, involved in the Terri Schiavo protests. Once imprisoned for sending former President Bill Clinton an aborted fetus. His son Jamiel is gay; his daughter Tila had sex outside of marriage, became pregnant, had a miscarriage - she is no longer welcome in his home; his daughter Ebony had 2 children outside of wedlock and became Muslim. He has campaigned against infidelity and birth control, gays and unwed mothers. Terry himself was censured by his church after committing adultery.

Bill Thomas Republican congressman, had an affair with Deborah Steelman, a health care lobbyist who steered huge campaign gifts to Thomas’ war chest.
Strom Thurmond, republican senator and racist, raped and impregnanted a 15-year old African American maid. [92]

Robin Vanderwall, Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate, director of Faith & Family Alliance, (a Christian Coalition spin off), former student of Pat Robertson’s Regent Universtity, member of Ralph Reed’s inner circle who funneled money to from lobbiest Jack Abromoff to Reed [93], convicted in Virginia for soliticing sex from a 13-year-old-boy[94] and on four other counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet. [95]

Jim Wesr, Spokane Mayor. Had a sexual affair with an 18 year old. Supported a bill, which failed, would have barred gays and lesbians from working in schools, day-care centers and some state agencies. Voted to bar the state from distributing pamphlets telling people how to protect themselves from AIDS. Proposed that “any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person” among teens be criminalized. boy.[96]

Keith Westmoreland, a state representative (R), was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to minors under 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children). [97]

Stephen White, Republican preacher. Was arrested after allegedly offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him. [98] [99]

12:27 PM  
Blogger John said...

FJ, just a thought:

Ixion's Wheel is like Dante's Second Circle in Hell, don't you think?

1:32 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

LOL! Now here's the report on Democrats who have recently committed crimes (first 6 months of 2006, only).

You'll note that many of their co-conspirators in Congress remain free to use and abuse the general public, as Democrats seek to re-enfranchise these millions of overwhelmingly 'Democratic' criminals.

1:35 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

One of Ixion's many crimes was lust. The Centaurs were his "descendents".

1:43 PM  
Anonymous the flint rocks said...

Ixion!! Nothing but silly asses here. Have fun playing cirlce jerk with each other...that's all you're good for. I can see the Democrats won't have any trouble from this pack of ignorant losers...last, sorry dregs of what could have been a great movement. Well, I'm young...maybe in 20 years...

1:56 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

I do want to clarify something. I do not think it is governments job to promote Morality. I just wish that I could promote it in my own family without having the Left tell me that I have to allow the schools to teach my kids about condoms and homosexuality.

Flint: So, you have listed all these things...much of which, is widely known. I do not support those Republicans. Phelonius does not support those Republicans as he is not a member of that party...as he has stated.

As I stated earlier, we are making the best of a bad situation.

Seems to me you really had to dig to find enough names to make a long list. Among the short list of national elected officials you listed a county commissioner, a campaign consultant, activists, lobbyists, fundraisers, a talk show host, an election board official, non descript 'politicians', a County Councilman, a Repblican strategist, ... come one! Looks like a pretty good dig to me. these "officials" serve.

This doesn't list all the good men and women who represent us in government who are upstanding citizens. I bet that list is FAR longer than the one you provided.

Yes, we have some bad eggs in our ranks. There are going to be bad eggs where ever you look.

btw...John, FJ...LOL!

Alice, I didn't follow that link. Was there a list on this page or just stats on crime in general?

2:04 PM  
Blogger berty said...

Don't let the screen door hit your ass on the way out, poseur.

2:05 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

I found a typo in my comments...

I meant to ask Where do many of these officals serve?

2:38 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Just a link to spreadsheets w/the crime stats on them, kelly.

Imagine, the party of dissent and rabble rousing trying to lecture the law and order party on criminality... the chutzpah!

*shakes head side-to-side*

2:42 PM  
Blogger John said...

Well said, Kelly.

Tell it, Berty.

It's projection, Alice.

7:58 PM  
Blogger John said...

Kelly said:

"You have read what John thinks of Libertarians. Yet, Phelonius was able to come in here and present his argument in such a way as to produce a civil discussion."

What do you mean, Kelly? I strongly sympathetic with Libertarians, and never said otherwise.

Alice--and everyone else--check out this rap sheet on the last adminstration:

http://www.prorev.com/legacy.htm

I thought Flintstone may have been a phony conservative (like the phony soldiers who lied about their military service so they could bash the military with "authority" as an "insider"), but it's possible that he really believes he's an authentic conservative/Libertarian and his treachery justified and righteous.

His gripes can be likened (by tone if not by substance) to Ron Paul's, who himself--a Libertarian Republican-- is none too pleased with his party.

I can't say for sure. Obviously, he's doing the Left a favor and doing their dirty work for them, so he might just as well be a double-agent- he was among the chorus of lefty goons at Sayet's, after all.

And this:

"I'm addressing the Republicans here who have their heads in the sand..."

"Head in the sand" was a pejorative du jour among the left that was passed around like a joint regarding the Global Warming skeptics (most of whom are conservatives).

That he said it tells you something about the circles he's been circulating in.

The rap sheet of corrupt Republicans is written sensationally and is comprised mostly of private citizens who happen to be identified as "Republicans," but are presented as if they represent the entire party, or are typical Republicans.

Obviously, as Alice pointed out--and proved--the same can be done with Democrats, mostly politicians, and in greater numbers.

The difference is that the disgraceful Republicans were banished by their embarassed party, for the sake of integrity of principles--which should silence the charges of hypocrisy .

Conversely, Teddy Kennedy of Chappaquidick fame and Barney Frank (whose homosexual lover converted the Dupont Circle apartment that Frank owned into a virtual homosexual brothel in the late '80's) are now powerful party elders.

Bill Clinton, of course, Impeached for Perjury, Subornation of Perjury, and Obstruction of Justice after he tried covering up his molestation of an intern (with a cigar, no less) and is credibly accused of rape by many women, is enjoying strong support from the Democrats, who still dismiss "It was just a blowjob" and is still viable for a third term in the White House by that very support (and persistent adulation).

And yet, look how viciously they attack homosexual Republicans and adulterers who don't commit perjury, etc. but simply get caught giving or receiving...

..."just a blowjob!"

A rap sheet like that would not be distributed by a conservative--and his habit of wall-papering the commentary section with lengthy articles written by other people

12:15 AM  
Blogger John said...

Alice:

I can't find the FBI data on Democrats on crime that you linked to (I looked in "spreadsheets").

12:30 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Yes, the various classification of crimes represent the factions and advocacy groups within the DNC... There's the Violent crime faction, the Murder faction, the Forcible rape faction, the Robbery faction, the Aggravated assault faction, the Property crime faction, the Burglary faction, the Larceny-theft faction, the Motor vehicle theft faction and finally the Arson faction. ;-)

4:45 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

As you can see, crimes by Democrats were down last year, but elect a few of their "trustees" to office, and they'll soon go nuts again!

4:47 AM  
Blogger John said...

Alice, I think I'm reading it wrong...

There's no indication of party affiliation.

6:16 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"What do you mean, Kelly? I strongly sympathetic with Libertarians, and never said otherwise."

I know you are...I have paid attention to things over the years in here.

but I was referring to your comment to Flinty about Libertarians in one of your earlier comments in this entry. He would have read that. My feeling is that he obviously hasn't read enough of this blog to know how really feel about any subject. As such it was useful for the point.

btw..Alice, I don't see party affiliation either.

6:50 AM  
Blogger John said...

Kelly, I had started this paragraph above but posted it without finishing it:

"A rap sheet like that would not be distributed by a conservative--and his habit of wall-papering the commentary section with lengthy articles written by other people"

I was pointing out the lefty's tendency to import and wall-paper the commentary sections with lengthy articles written by other people.

Remember Jeff-Jeff-Jeff doing that?

They all do it.

9:59 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff [aka Lee Harvey] was notoriously pasting such things. Oh well, do I remember.

10:31 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Well if there WERE a correlation between party affiliation and criminal activity, shouldn't the FBI be tracking it? And if they're not, isn't it highly likely that a poster that tries to make a case that one party is more "criminally inclined" than another is likely to be full of sh*t?

But regardless, given the "minority" representation in America's prisons correlated with their voting records, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of criminals in prison are "probably" Democrats. Else the DNC wouldn't be so hell bent on restoring the vote to ex-cons.

3:08 PM  
Blogger John said...

Or to illegal aliens. Clinton granted citizenship to multitudes of them practically overnight just in time for the '96 elections.

There have been correlations made between felons and their party affiliation.

This makes your point:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3088970

4:18 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Damn, that wasone heck of an article... over 70% of felons are DEMOCRATS.

Thanks for confirming the stats, john. ;-)

6:34 PM  
Blogger John said...

At your service, Alice.

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pretty obvious that our man Flint was talking about GOP officials...not every run of the mill small timer. Also should be obvious to self deceiving nutcases that any study of a prison population includes huge nos. of blacks who are always, as we know, Democratic whatever their walk of life. Here's just a partial list of the biggest crime spree in political history...you know, the one which has honest GOPs leaving the party:

Indicted / Convicted/ Pled Guilty

* Eric G. Andell - deputy undersecretary in charge of newly created Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools (previously senior adviser to Secretary of Education Rod Paige) - pleaded guilty to one count of conflict of interest for using government travel for personal causes and was sentenced to one year of probation, 100 hours of community service, and fined $5,000.

* Claude Allen - Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy- resigned, pled guilty to shoplifting from Target stores.

* Lester Crawford - Commissioner, FDA - resigned in late September 2005 after only two months on the job. On October 17th, he pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts, making a false writing and conflict of interest. On February 27, 2007, Crawford was sentenced to to three years of probation and was fined $90,000.

* Brian Doyle - Deputy Press Secretary, Department of Homeland Security - Resigned in wake of child sex scandal. Doyle was arrested on April 4th, 2006 and pleaded no contest on September 19, 2006 to seven counts of use of a computer to seduce a child and sixteen counts of transmitting harmful material to a minor. On November 17th, 2006 Brian Doyle was sentenced to five years in state prison and ten years of probation. He will also need to register as a sex offender.

* Steven Griles - Deputy Secretary at the Interior Department - is the highest-ranked administration official yet convicted in the Jack Abramoff scandal. In March 2007, Griles pleaded guilty to lying about his role in the Jack Abramoff scandal. Sentenced to 10 months incarceration.

* John T. Korsmo – Chairman of the Federal Housing Finance Board from 2002 to 2004 – pleaded guilty in 2005 to lying to the Senate and an inspector general. He swore he had no idea how a list of presidents for FHFB-regulated banks were invited to a fundraiser for his friend's congressional campaign. On the invites, Korsmo was listed as the "Special Guest." Got 18 months of probation and a $5,000 fine.

* Scooter Libby - Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff - resigned after being indicted for lying to a grand jury and investigators in connection with the investigation stemming from the leak of Valerie Wilson’s covert CIA operative's identity. Convicted on four of five counts, making him the highest-ranking White House official to be convicted of a felony since the Iran-contra scandal. Sentenced to thirty months imprisonment and a fine of $250,000. On July 2nd, after a judge decided that Libby would remain in prison during the appeals process, President Bush commuted Libby's sentence by removing the thirty months in prison.

* David Safavian - former head of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy at the Office of Management and Budget - convicted of lying to ethics officials and Senate investigators about his ties to lobbyist Jack Abramoff. On October 27, 2006, he was sentenced to 18 months in prison. He is currently appealing the ruling.

* Robert Stein - former comptroller and funding officer for the now disbanded Coalition Provisional Authority, Southern Central Region in Al-Hillah, Iraq - pleaded guilty to conspiracy, bribery, conspiracy to commit money laundering, possession of a machine gun, and being a felon in possession of a fire arm. On January 30, 2007 Stein was sentenced to nine years in prison and ordered to forfeit $3.6 million.

* Roger Stillwell - desk officer, Interior Department - pleaded guilty to failing to report Redskins tickets and free dinners from Jack Abramoff.

Resigned Due to Investigation, Pending Investigation or Allegations of Impropriety


* Philip Cooney - chief of staff, White House Council on Environmental Quality - a former oil industry lawyer with no scientific expertise, Cooney resigned after it was revealed he had watered down reports on global warming.

* George Deutsch - press aide, NASA - resigned amid allegations he prevented the agency's top climate scientist from speaking publicly about global warming.

* Michael Elston - chief of staff to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty - announced his resignation on June 15, 2007. Despite allegations that he’d threatened at least four of the eight fired US Attorneys, McNulty said Elston had served the Justice Department "with distinction for nearly eight years."

* Kyle Dustin “Dusty” Foggo - appointed executive director of the CIA, the agency’s third-highest post, in October 2004 - resigned and was ultimately indicted on bribery charges related to the Duke Cunningham scandal.

* Alberto Gonzales - former Attorney General - resigned without explanation amidst investigations of the firings of U.S. Attorneys, the politicization of the Justice Department, warrantless surveillance, and the torture and mistreatment of detainees.

* Monica Goodling - former Justice Department liaison to the White House and senior counsel to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales - resigned on April 7, 2007 amidst the investigation of the firings of U.S. Attorneys.

* Michelle Larson Korsmo - deputy chief of staff, Department of Labor - Helped her husband (see John Korsmo, above) with his donor scam. Quietly left her Labor plum job in February 2004, about two weeks before news broke that she and her husband were the targets of a criminal probe.

* Howard "Cookie" Krongard - former State Department inspector general -- accused of not properly investigating State Department contractor fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan; of retaliating against whistleblowers in his own office; and of not telling the truth about his knowledge of his brother's ties with Blackwater, a State Department contractor. Faced with a possible perjury investigation, Howard Krongard resigned on December 7, 2007.

* Julie Macdonald - former deputy assistant secretary for fish, wildlife and parks at the Interior Department - resigned in May 2007 after an "inspector general's report found she had improperly leaked information to private organizations, bullied staff scientists and broken federal rules." The Department of the Interior is investigating many of her decisions regarding endangered species; so far seven have been overturned.

* Paul McNulty - Deputy Attorney General for the Department of Justice – resigned, after questions about his involvement in the U.S. attorney firings and his testimony to Congress about the firings.

* Richard Perle - Chairman, Defense Policy Board - resigned from Pentagon advisory panel amid conflict-of-interest charges.

* Susan Ralston - assistant, White House - resigned amidst revelations that she had accepted thousands of dollars in gifts from Abramoff without compensating him, counter to White House ethics rules.

* Janet Rehnquist - inspector general, Department of Health and Human Services - resigned on June 1, 2003 in the face of an investigation into her alleged efforts to block a politically dangerous probe on behalf of the Bush family.

* James Roche - secretary, U.S. Air Force - resigned in the wake of the Boeing tanker lease scandal, after it was revealed he had rather crudely pushed for Boeing to win a $23 billion contract.

* Kyle Sampson -former chief of staff for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales - resigned amidst the investigation of the firings of U.S. Attorneys.

* Joseph Schmitz - Inspector General, Defense - Resigned amid charges he personally intervened to protect top political appointees.

* Bradley Schlozman - resigned from his third and final post with the Justice Department after accusations of actively politicizing the department. He's currently under investigation by the Department's inspector general.

* Thomas Scully - Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services - shortly after Scully resigned in 2003, an investigation by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general found that Scully had pressured the agency's actuary to underestimate the full cost of the Medicare reform bill by approximately $100 billion until after Congress passed the bill into law. Scully was also hit with conflict of interest charges by the U.S. attorney's office for billing CMS for expenses incurred during a job search while he still headed the agency. He settled those charges by paying $9,782.

* David Smith - deputy assistant secretary for fish, wildlife, and parks, Interior Department - resigned on July 21, 2006 after shooting a buffalo and accepting its skeletal remains and meat as an illegal gratuity. He eventually paid over $3,000 for the dead buffalo, but only after the internal inquiry had commenced. The Department of Interior inspector general also noted in a May 16, 2006 report that Smith's involvement in the designation of Houston as a port of entry for imported wildlife in order to benefit a friend was inappropriate.

* John Tanner - Voting Rights Section Chief, Justice Department - resigned in December of 2007 and moved to the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices. Already under suspicion for aiding efforts to politicize the voting section, the bumbling proponent of voter identification laws angered lawmakers with his comments that such laws actually discriminate against white voters because "minorities die first". Even more impressive was his apology for the comment. The DoJ's Office of Professional Responsibility is currently investigating his travel habits and those of his deputy.

* Sara Taylor - Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Political Affairs at the White House, where she was Karl Rove´s top aide - resigned amidst the U.S. attorneys investigation and other probes of Rove´s alleged politicization of the government.

* Ken Tomlinson - Board Chairman, Corporation for Public Broadcasting; member, Broadcasting Board of Governors - resigned at the release of an inspector general report concluding he had broken laws in spending CPB money to hire politically connected consultants to search for "bias" without consulting the board. At BBG, a separate investigation found he was running a "horse racing operation" out of his office, and continuing to hire politically-wired individuals to do "consulting" work for him. After being nominated and serving another term, he finally stepped down from that spot earlier this year.

* Carl Truscott - Director, Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau - resigned. A report by the Justice Department's inspector general found that Truscott wasted tens of thousands of dollars on luxuries, wasted millions on whimsical management decisions and violated ethics rules by ordering employees to help his nephew with a high school video project.

* Paul Wolfowitz - World Bank President - resigned in May 2007 after a committee report found that he broke ethics rules by giving his girlfriend a substantial raise.

Nomination Failed Due to Scandal

* Linda Chavez - nominated, Secretary of Labor - withdrew her nomination in January 2001 amidst revelations that an illegal immigrant lived in her home and worked for her in the early 1990s. Chavez blamed what she said were the "search-and-destroy" politics of Washington.

* Timothy Flanigan - nominated, Deputy Attorney General (also Alberto Gonzales’ top deputy at the White House) - withdrew his nomination in October 2005 amidst revelations that he'd worked closely with lobbyist Jack Abramoff when he was General Counsel for Corporate and International Law at Tyco, which was a client of Abramoff's.

* Bernard Kerik - nominated, Secretary, Department of Homeland Security - withdrew his nomination amidst a host of corruption allegations. Eventually pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor relating to improper gifts totaling tens of thousands of dollars while he was a New York City official in the late 1990's. Subsequently, on November 8, 2007, Kerik was indicted on sixteen counts for bribery, tax fraud, and false statements with a maximum sentence of 142 years and more than $5 million in fines. Kerik has pleaded not guilty. For a rundown of Kerik's myriad indiscretions, check out TPM's Ultimate Kerik Scandal List!.

* William Mercer - the former associate deputy attorney general and US Attorney for Montana - withdrew his nomination to be the permanent number three official at the Department of Justice on June 22, 2007 due to his role in the U.S. attorney firings.

* Hans von Spakovsky - Commissioner, FEC - nomination to another term after his recess appointment failed due to allegations that he'd worked at the Justice Department to suppress minority voter turnout.

Under Investigation But Still in Office

* Stuart Bowen - Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) - was once admired for his successes while investigating allegations of waste and fraud in Iraq, but now employee allegations have prompted four government investigations into the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR).

* Lurita Doan - Administrator of the U.S. General Services Administration - still in office, despite investigations by both the Office of Special Counsel and the House oversight committee that found that Doan had "crossed the line" by suggesting that the GSA use its resources to help Republicans get elected.

* Alfonso Jackson - Secretary of Housing and Urban Development - following reports that Jackson told a business group in April 2006 that he once canceled a contract after the contractor criticized President Bush, an investigation by the HUD inspector general found that while Jackson told his deputies to favor Bush supporters, there was "no direct proof that a contract was actually awarded or rescinded because of political affiliation." A second, criminal investigation was triggered in part by Jackson's claim before Congress in May 2007 that "I don't touch contracts." That probe, now before a federal grand jury, has turned up evidence that Jackson may indeed have touched contracts - and steered them towards friends.

10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alice Gorable said...
Just a link to spreadsheets w/the crime stats on them, kelly.

Imagine, the party of dissent and rabble rousing trying to lecture the law and order party on criminality... the chutzpah!

*shakes head side-to-side*



Wow...dishonest AND stupid...after seeing all those verifiable names, wouldn't a person with a brain get a tiny clue that the "law and order" brand is just the biggest dirty joke now going around.

10:21 PM  
Blogger John said...

Oh no. Infestation.

12:20 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

..."after seeing all those verifiable names, wouldn't a person with a brain get a tiny clue that the "law and order" brand is just the biggest dirty joke now going around."

As opposed to an actual scientific study that looks at the numbers and concludes that over 70% of felons are DEMOCRATS? Are YOU really that stupid (rhetorical question)?

9:58 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

John, infestation??

I think its the same rodent as before.

10:22 AM  
Anonymous please help!! said...

I see there are several fellow mothers in this swell group. I wish to issue a heartfelt appeal to you. There are many dangers our children must face but one of the most inexcusable comes from a surprising source and one which they should be able to trust implicitly...our political and moral leaders. But, unfortunately, this is not the case...pedophilia, the worst of crimes, is rampant amongst our Republican, "family values", officials and amongst our Christian pastors and priests!!! Please do all you can to protect your precious children from these unspeakable predators and also spread the word to every corner of the nation. Conservative blogs are a perfect venue for they harbor or unwittingly protect many of these people. A google search shows me and our very concerned and committed group that some of you are already discussing that problem here on this very blog. Here is the astonishing list:

STOP REPUBLICAN PEDOPHILIA



Republican presidential campaign official Matthew Joseph Elliott was convicted of sexual exploitation of a child.
Republican Party Chairman Donald Fleischman was charged with two counts of child enticement, two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a child and a single charge of exposing himself to a child.
Republican prosecutor John David Roy Atchison was arrested for soliciting sex from a 5-year old girl, then killed himself three weeks later. At the time of his arrest, Atchison was an "assistant U.S. attorney" appointed by President Bush's attorney general.
Republican city councilman John Bryan killed himself after police began investigating allegations that he had molested three girls, including two of his adopted daughters, ages 12 and 15.
Republican legislator Ted Klaudt was charged with raping girls under the age of 16.
Republican city councilman Joseph Monteleone Jr. was found guilty of fondling underage girls.
Republican congressional aide Jeffrey Nielsen was arrested for having sex with a 14-year old boy.
Republican County Commissioner Patrick Lee McGuire surrendered to police after allegedly molesting girls between the ages of 8 and 13.
Republican prosecutor Larry Corrigan was arrested for soliciting sex from 13-year old girls.
Republican Mayor Jeffrey Kyle Randall was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys -- ages ten and 12 -- during a six-year period.
Republican County Board Candidate Brent Schepp was charged with molesting a 14-year old girl and killed himself three days later.
Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.
Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper pleaded guilty to soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.
Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.
Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting sex from an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.
Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.
Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.
Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano pleaded guilty to fondling a 14-year-old girl.
Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.
Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.
Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.
Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.
Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.
Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.
Republican Committeeman John R. Curtin was convicted of molesting an underage teenage boy and sentenced to serve six to 18 months in prison.
Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.
Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.
Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.
Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.
Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.
Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.
Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.
Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.
Republican fundraiser Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.
Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.
Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
Republican campaign chairman Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child and was arrested again five years later on the same charge.
Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.
Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.
Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer.
Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.
Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.
Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.
Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced prison after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.
Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.
Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.
Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.
Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.
Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.
Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.
Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.
Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.
Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.
Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.
Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.
Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.
Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.
Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.
Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency. See excerpt of one prisoner's report here and his full report here.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Please Help!! said...

This is astonishing! No sooner do I post a warning about this kind of scandal than this appears...fitting example of just how frequent and prevalent this kind of thing is in our society.

Women sue Tennessee temple for rapes by pastor David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Friday May 16, 2008

Four women who claim they were sexually assaulted by their pastor are suing Christian Gospel Temple in Cross Plains, Tennessee for allowing the assaults to continue.

Lynette Fay, now 26, says that Reverend Paul Mears "basically raped me on a daily basis" when she was between the ages of 4 and 12. She believes that church leader Cornelius Mears, the brother of her alleged assailant, knew and did nothing to stop it.

Crystal Mears, says that Paul Mears, who is her grandfather, raped her when she was eight and told her, "God will condemn your soul if you ever speak a word of this to anyone."

The women charge that the temple is a cult which controls the smallest details of its members' lives. It was originally located in Chino, California, but in 1993 Cornelius Mears told the congregation they were moving to Tennessee, and hundreds of his followers gave up their jobs and followed him.

The current pastor has released a statement saying, "We believe the allegations against the Christian Gospel Temple are not correct or true."

This video is from CBS 13 Sacremento, broadcast May 15, 2008.

1:16 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

Gee, most paedophiles are homos, and most homes are Democrats.

We should outlaw the DNC. They're a moral hazrd to the nation.

1:47 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

Most homey's AND homo's are democrats... musta been a Freudian slip. ;-)

1:48 PM  
Blogger John said...

Besides, whatever happened to "It's only sex!"?

i.e. "It's just a blowjob!"

3:46 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Democrats only say that when it's someone else's kid... or their own "guy in charge".

4:06 PM  
Anonymous blossom said...

Actually, most pedophiles are dirty old men molesting little girls...like that Christian guy the lady posted on...and John and FJ sound a little too defensive to me...hahaha, just had to see what your blog was about, John. Looks like a bunch of petty, little people gossiping about petty little things...well, what'd I expect. Oh, my boyfriend says hi...I told him I bet there was a really goofy blog I could show him before we went out for cappucino. See ya tenants latah.

9:41 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"and John and FJ sound a little too defensive to me..."

This is from someone who is pretty much anonymous. You wouldn't want anyone to find out what your blog is about, would you? There is a common thread among this group.

Gotta spread the word to all your buddies...just make sure they know not to leave a trace.

Cowards!

10:14 PM  
Blogger John said...

Welcome, Blossom.

"Actually, most pedophiles are dirty old men molesting little girls...like that Christian guy the lady posted on... Oh, my boyfriend says hi...I told him I bet there was a really goofy blog I could show him before we went out for cappucino."

Thank you for the notification that you're sexually active. I'll make a note of it.

Tell him I say "hi" too.

And I knew I could count on you not to be gossipy and petty.

And I'm sorry you lost the bet.

10:49 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

I guess we've already covered the fact that paedophilia is a crime and that most criminals are Democrats...

8:48 AM  
Anonymous blossom said...

Obama's man looks like a boy scout leader next to McCain's pal. This will make every Jew in America vote for Obama...I know my family will:
McCain's Political Endorser John Hagee Preaching Jews Are Cursed and Subhuman
By Bruce Wilson Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:15:20 PM EST

Yesterday I discovered an astonishing audio recording of a sermon, by controversial McCain endorser Pastor John Hagee, in which Hagee elaborates on his view that Hitler and the Nazis were divine agents sent by God to (with gruesome inefficiency it would seem) chase Europe's Jews towards Palestine. In his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown", Hagee proposed that anti-Semitism, and thus the Holocaust, was the fault of Jews themselves - the result of an age old divine curse incurred by the ancient Hebrews through worshiping idols and passed, down the ages, to all Jews now alive. In the sermon Hagee also clarifies a point, on his theological views, that has long concerned me [video inside, in full story]
topic: John Hagee

I might have used any number of titles to describe this sermon by Pastor John Hagee, given in the late 1990's and then mass marketed as part of a book Hagee published in 2001 and republished in 2003, "The Battle For Jerusalem".
It could have titled it:

McCain's Hagee: God Sent Hitler, or...

Pastor Hagee says Jew Have Dead Souls. or...

Hagee says God mandates ethnic Bantustan for Jews

I think all those titles would have been valid, point being: Hagee says a LOT of horrible things. And, Hagee and McCain have given each other mutual endorsments.

In the following audio sermon, which I have put into a video [and that includes other viciously anti-Jewish statement from John Hagee], Hagee says:

- Jews are not "spiritually alive".I have a copy of John Hagee's "Prophecy Study Bible", which makes quite clear Hagee is talking about all Jews now living - whom Hagee singles out, from among all other non-Christians on Earth, to note that they specifically do not have living souls. Indeed, Hagee says the souls of all Jews now living are dead. Dead souls. McCain endorser John hagee says Jews have dead souls.

- Hitler and the Nazis were sent by God, to chase Jews back to the land of Israel. Because that's where God intends them to be. So, the Holocaust was a gruesomely inefficient system of divine "persuasion", and Hitler and the Nazis were doing "God's work". But Hagee also depicts this divine ethnic cleansing imperative as a future project: it will happen.

11:28 AM  
Blogger FJ said...

John Hagee... Boo! LOL!

2:18 PM  
Anonymous fatneck said...

Well, I just took ten minutes out and kicked FJ around over on Psychet's, and thought I'd drop in and see what his dopey little buddy was up to over here. Boy, Blossom was right about this place. Is this a little girl's giggle party or what? I thought it was about politics. Oh, I'll match your reverend and raise you a blood thirsty fanatic.

Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to add a wing bat, parrot acronym...duh, uh...lol.

3:11 PM  
Blogger John said...

This will make every Jew in America vote for Obama...I know my family will..."

Divide and conquer, eh Blossom?

And you should speak for yourself.

Why are you implying that your family may have even considered voting for McCain before this "bombshell" supposedly made them recoil and pledge support for Obama?

I'm sure your family has hated Bush and all things Bush (including his party) persistently since 2000 as much as you do.

That "report" you posted is just more Kool-Aid, more bullshit, pure propaganda that serves one distinct purpose:

It's a paltry, sorry, and futile attempt to counterbalance the damage to Obama vis-a-vis hemorrhaging non-moonbat Jewish support caused by his pastor Wright's radical anti-semitism.

Wright--and his influential mentor Conehead, and indeed engendered in the "Liberation Theology" that Obama has hitherto embraced for 20 years-- even thinks that Jews are imposters and that the real "Jews" are actually Africans.

They are staunchly pro-Hamas, identifying the "plight" of African-Americans to the "plight" of Palestinians.

They are no "Friends of Israel"...

...while Hagee is perhaps the best friend that pro-Israel Jews ever had from the Evangelical, Gentile world (and that's saying a lot).

Hagee's considered a "Zionist shill," in fact by detractors.

You KNOW that, and conservative pro-Israel Jews know that, so that piece of propaganda is targeting and trying to sow confusion among independent and undecided Jews by softening the Wright-factor if only comparably by the hardening of the Hagee one.

You know it's just a demagogic tweaker thrown out there that'll bob about but then sink under scrutiny.

Defenders of Wright (for the sake of Obama) complained that his words are "taken out of context," which is a lie, because the anti-Semitic context is clear.

Of course, you were projecting what your side would do, because without blinking you then set to work taking Hagee's words out of context.

His talk of the "dead souls" of Jews is in the context of a wider sermon that deals with the "dry bones" of the exiled nation of Israel as prophecied by Ezekiel (of the Torah; ever hear of him?), but that they not only have been re-animated as a living people, as prophecied, by the re-establishment of Israel in 1948, but would be engendered with (Christian) souls, pace Ezekial but in a Christian context referencing New Testrament prophecy and the conversion of Jews to Christianity.

Wupty-do. He's a Christian and counts on freely chosen conversion. If it doesn't happen, he just keeps waiting.

Furthermore, why the hell would any non-Christian care if they have a Christian soul or not?

Or if they go to Christian heaven or hell or not?

In the meantime, Hagee fundraises for Israel and provides all sorts of assistance because he believes that Jews--for Jesus or not--have a special relationship with God not enjoyed by any other group and must be protected. As Jews.

And your crowd is trying to suggest that he's MORE anti-Semitic than Wright?

Come on. You know he's just a goyim schmuck who can only help, not hurt.

And the idea that the tribulation of Jews over the millennia and that Hitler was some agent of Providence used to get the Jews back to Israel is nothing "radical", no less anti-Semitic.

It's just an interpretation of history by someone who subscibes to Salvation History, which tries to discern God's Hand and Purpose in the vicissitudes of history which on first glance appear random and chaotic but is then ordered as juxtaposed with biblical--Old & New Testament--prophecy.

And that's not a strictly Christian practice, either. Judaism does the same thing with the prophecies in the Torah, as does Islam with the prophecies in the Koran.

They believe that their respective sacred tomes are the Word of God/Allah.

That's their prerogative.

You believe that you can fool everyone with third-rate propaganda that's engendered by nothing but petty partisanship, and that's your prerogative.

Unfortunately, you got busted spiking the punch with your Kool Aid (again).

4:19 PM  
Blogger John said...

"Little girl's giggle party."

lol

4:19 PM  
Anonymous blooosom said...

John said...
Yeah, right, that's what I did (whatever).

You might want to stop by my place again, Blossom, if you want to see yourself getting spanked with your pants and panties down to your ankles.


Wow...you're rationalizing in full desperation mode, now...but, gee, somehow I don't feel all spanked. You seem to be developing a thing for me, John...if you could see me, you'd flip out completely, but I'm just not into backward naziboys...us Jews have a thing about those guys, you know. Apparently, you're feeling a little spanked, though, after having thought you had that anti-jewish pastor thing all locked up.They've got video, they've got transcripts, they'll be all over come 'lecshun time with the Dems having so much more money than you...oh, that'll "confuse" the Jews alright, Goebbels...hahaha, lotsa luck with that one.

5:06 PM  
Anonymous blossom said...

Talk about a spanking...but it's Peggy Noonan spanking the GOP!!
She must be a troll.

DECLARATIONS
By PEGGY NOONAN

Pity Party
May 16, 2008; Page A11
Big picture, May 2008:

The Democrats aren't the ones falling apart, the Republicans are. The Democrats can see daylight ahead. For all their fractious fighting, they're finally resolving their central drama. Hillary Clinton will leave, and Barack Obama will deliver a stirring acceptance speech. Then hand-to-hand in the general, where they see their guy triumphing. You see it when you talk to them: They're busy being born.


Terry Shoffner
Clarke Reed
The Republicans? Busy dying. The brightest of them see no immediate light. They're frozen, not like a deer in the headlights but a deer in the darkness, his ears stiff at the sound. Crunch. Twig. Hunting party.

The headline Wednesday on Drudge, from Politico, said, "Republicans Stunned by Loss in Mississippi." It was about the eight-point drubbing the Democrat gave the Republican in the special House election. My first thought was: You have to be stupid to be stunned by that. Second thought: Most party leaders in Washington are stupid – detached, played out, stuck in the wisdom they learned when they were coming up, in '78 or '82 or '94. Whatever they learned then, they think pertains now. In politics especially, the first lesson sticks. For Richard Nixon, everything came back to Alger Hiss.

They are also – Hill leaders, lobbyists, party speakers – successful, well-connected, busy and rich. They never guessed, back in '86, how government would pay off! They didn't know they'd stay! They came to make a difference and wound up with their butts in the butter. But affluence detaches, and in time skews thinking. It gives you the illusion you're safe, and that everyone else is. A party can lose its gut this way.

5:24 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

The only spanked hiney I see around here is yours blooosom...

In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone will recognize you from here on out without your panties around your ankles...

btw- Is that John's name tattooed on your left cheek? Cute!

6:38 PM  
Blogger John said...

"...but, gee, somehow I don't feel all spanked."

As she coyly bends over for more.

"You seem to be developing a thing for me, John..."

Yes. I'm working on a twelve-step program of sorts. Just for you.

"if you could see me, you'd flip out completely..."

Prove it.

"...but I'm just not into backward naziboys..."

Could've fooled me with the fascist little pricks you ally yourself with at Mr. Sayet's.

"us Jews have a thing about those guys, you know."

You would think.

"Apparently, you're feeling a little spanked, though, after having thought you had that anti-jewish pastor thing all locked up."

Last time I checked, it was still jailed. You're going to need more than a little nail file and a few drops of acid to spring it out, Blossom.

It seems like you're now trying to seduce the guard into giving you the keys.

Hate to break it to ya, toots, but this naziboy ain't Sergeant Schulz.

You're going to have to do a little better than that (if you catch my meaning).

"They've got video, they've got transcripts..."

Of Reverend Wright. Lots n' lots.

"...they'll be all over come 'lecshun time..."

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I'm just surprised that a nice Jewish girl like you is supporting a candidate whose "spiritual mentor" that he patronized for 20 years doesn't even think Jews are the real Jews and who himself promotes "unconditional" talks with a leader of a nation who has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel, exults that she's on her last legs, and is already a "rotting, stinking corpse."

You should really look into Liberation Theology, Blossom, to learn what Obama's religion--Liberation Theology-- really thinks about Jews.

For you to then turn around and attack McCain's pastor--who, again, is called a "Zionist shill" by detractors-- as being anti-Semitic is...what?

Chutzpah?

Or moonbattery?

"...with the Dems having so much more money than you..."

That's McCain's own fault for getting suckered by Feingold.

"oh, that'll 'confuse' the Jews alright, Goebbels...hahaha, lotsa luck with that one."

If your crowd is going to try to set up "Zionist shill" Hagee as an anti-Semite to counterbalance Wright's "Elders-Of-Zion" type of anti-Semitism, I'm not going to need any luck. You are.

"Talk about a spanking...but it's Peggy Noonan spanking the GOP!!
She must be a troll."

I read that yesterday. A malaise is undeniable, but reversible.

We don't even know who we're going up against.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's both.

"New direction" my foot.

7:09 PM  
Blogger John said...

Alice, that expose' you posted is going to come out and whack them like a wooden paddle.

That's damaging stuff.

7:13 PM  
Blogger John said...

Fathead said:

"Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to add a wing bat, parrot acronym...duh, uh...lol."

Good boy. Now gtfo.

7:15 PM  
Anonymous b. said...

John said...
Alice, that expose' you posted is going to come out and whack them like a wooden paddle.

That's damaging stuff.


Yes, I looked for that...can't find anthing serious. Damaging? Why, it makes you look like morons again? That damage has been done...read Peggy: The Republicans? Busy dying. The brightest of them see no immediate light. They're frozen, not like a deer in the headlights but a deer in the darkness, his ears stiff at the sound. Crunch. Twig. Hunting party.

Now THAT is damaging!

7:26 PM  
Blogger John said...

Blossom, one set of stuff deals with a very radical ideology that the American people are still not all familiar with.

But look at what happened to Barack's fortunes ever since the Wright controversy first broke (he's been getting creamed by shot-slamming and "I've-Felt-The-Presence-Of-The-Lord" Billary).

They don't know the half of it, but the rest of it is coming and then some.

The other stuff deals with a bad mood, a funk.

It's different stuff entirely.

9:10 PM  
Blogger John said...

P.S. Nice tattoo.

9:37 PM  
Anonymous gee this is sad said...

Davis Says Republicans Too Near `Radioactive' Bush (Update1)
By Laura Litvan
May 16 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush is ``absolutely radioactive'' and Republicans will suffer widespread election losses in November unless they distance themselves from him, said Representative Tom Davis, a former leader of the party's House campaign committee.

``They've got to get some separation from the president,'' Davis, of Virginia, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television's ``Political Capital with Al Hunt,'' scheduled to be aired today. Bush is the face of the party and congressional Republicans are ``seen as just in lockstep with him on everything,'' Davis said.

Republicans would lose 20 to 25 House seats if the election were held today, Davis said. If Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, is seen by voters as ``Bush III'' he will lose by 20 percentage points, said Davis, who chaired the National Republican Congressional Committee from 1998 to 2002.

``Republicans, I think, have time to turn it around to some extent,'' said Davis, 59, who isn't seeking re-election this year. ``But, if they don't, we're cruising for a bruising.''

Davis warned his colleagues about further losses after Democrats won House special elections to replace Republicans in Louisiana, Mississippi and in the Illinois seat formerly held by former House Speaker Dennis Hastert.

A Mistake

Davis said Republicans made a mistake in backing Bush's opposition to expanding a children's health insurance program, providing federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research and changing Iraq War policy. They are now making a similar error by opposing a plan to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, he said.

``In every case, they've walked down an alley where they're 30 percent of the electorate,'' Davis said. ``And that makes you a permanent minority.''

Congressional Republicans must offer their own solutions on gas prices and other issues because there is ``nothing coming out of the White House'' on policy.

The House Republican leadership team, under Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, has been offering the ``same old, same old'' since the 2006 elections, he said. Animosity between Boehner and National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Cole must be overcome to aid Republican candidates and secure their own party positions.

`Pull Together'

``Republicans have got to pull together and work as a team,'' he said.

If the leadership fails to help the party change course, ``they'll be thrown out by the caucus in December,'' he said.

Representative Chris Van Hollen, head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said voters will likely see Republican attempts this year to separate themselves from Bush as ``pure political opportunism.''

``Eleventh-hour conversions can be very unsightly when people try and flip-flop at the last minute,'' he said in a telephone interview.

Davis also questioned Bush's comments this week that he won't negotiate with leaders of countries that sponsor terrorism -- an apparent slap at Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's foreign-policy statements. That may have hurt Republicans because Bush was the messenger, Davis said.

`Turn Him Off'

``The difficulty for us right now is that President Bush is, although he's the president and the leader of the party, when you turn on the TV and see him, two-thirds of the people turn him off,'' Davis said. ``They're not going to believe him even when he's right so he's got to get surrogates.''

Davis added that Bush may have gone too far when he said that ``some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along,'' in a speech in Israel. Bush said that one senator suggested before World War II that he might have been able to dissuade Adolf Hitler's aggression.

10:13 PM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Damn, was that another blooosom post (as she pretends to be someone else?)? I think I recognized her by the panties around ankles, tattoo on the cheeks and bent over the barrel pose....

4:43 AM  
Blogger John said...

Could be. I'm pretty sure Blossom goes by the name of "I've-bin-Lookin," too.

Good morning. :)

5:59 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Good morning! :)

8:33 AM  
Blogger Alice Gorable said...

Here's a little something just to add a little injury to insult...

9:19 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

In 1776 fify-six men signed their names to a document that was counter to the King of England. They put their lives in jeopardy by doing so. They became traitors to the Crown. They could have easily just sent out this document anonymously. But they did not. They put their names down for all to see.

Now, there once was a troll named Dora. I would call her many things, but I would not call her a coward. She posted her name and a link to her own site where people could read for themselves what her views were. I commend her for that.

What we have coming here spewing all sorts of "damnation", with complete and total anonymity.

I imagine that it is quite easy to spam a site such as this without any repercussions...if you don't leave your name(s).

If you all feel so strongly about the subjects you are trying to promote why don't you start your own blog(s)?

But, oh that would not do at all. One of us might come and make comments to the contrary. Oh then what would you do?

Cowards! You're too afraid to really stand up for what you believe.

John, they don't deserve responses to their garbage.

10:08 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:29 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

I found this link posted on another blog I visit...though I haven't ever been to the blog it originated from.

We want change.

10:38 AM  
Blogger John said...

31,000 scientists meeting today and this is the first time I hear about. Thanks for the link, Alice.

Kelly, I see nothing wrong with a blogger who just likes to blog-hop or even troll a particular blog wuithout their own blog, or with different aliases, or even anonymously. That's there prerogative.

When a blogger feels compelled to come in and out with different aliases pretending to be different people, that's deceitful and can indicate cowardliness, but that's their problem.

I myself provide minimal personal information for my own reasons.

As do you. What's your last name?

See what I mean? ;)

11:08 AM  
Anonymous frankie machine said...

Yeah, yeah, sure, but what about your own leaders telling you you're in the toilet...that's funny stuff, and your responses were even funnier...oh, there were none. Little deer in a great big search light.

11:32 AM  
Blogger Kelly said...

"When a blogger feels compelled to come in and out with different aliases pretending to be different people, that's deceitful and can indicate cowardliness, but that's their problem."

It's the intent and deceitfulness that bothers me. John, I think you said it better. I have been trying to pin down what it is about these "people" that doesn't sit right.

When Flintstone showed up that was one thing...but he suddenly quit coming and "others" came in to back him up. "He" quit coming when I pointed out how far he had to dig. He needed someone to support his position. So, he comes back as Anonymous or "Please, Help". He may have even grabbed his girlfriend to help his cause.

At any rate, it is pretty cowardly, IMO.

12:16 PM  
Blogger John said...

Frankie said:

"Yeah, yeah, sure, but what about your own leaders telling you you're in the toilet..."

What do you mean, Frankie?

"...that's funny stuff, and your responses were even funnier...oh, there were none. Little deer in a great big search light."

Actually, Frankie, I had stuff to do.

I've noticed that you have the habit of jumping to conclusions and asserting them as fact with little or no evidence to support the leaps.

That compulsive behavior engenders most of your arguments. And beliefs, it appears.

That's why you always end up like Wile E. Coyote shrinking from view as you plummet straight down off a cliff with a whistle after being hoist by your own petard and disappear with a "poof" as you hit.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous frankie tries again said...

"Yeah, yeah, sure,John, but what about your own leaders telling you you're in the toilet..."

1:08 PM  
Blogger FJ said...

Kelly has a point... and it helps one understand the nature of any landed people's disdain for the Roma or other "migrant" and landless people and why having "property" was often required for voting. People with nothing to lose or defend in expressing their views are MUCH MUCH more likely to do so inconsiderately and irresponsibly and post belligerent and ill-considered opinions. After all, they've nothing to lose/defend. They simply slither away in anonymity and are reborn under a new pseudonym.

And so, you DO differ from them in this respect, John. Your blog & pseudonym have a "reputation" to defend. Sayet's trolls will say and do anything... their pseudonyms mean nothing to them.

2:56 PM  
Anonymous wunce again said...

Yeah, yeah, sure,John, but what about your own leaders telling you you're in the toilet?

4:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Signs Fossella May Run Again Unnerve G.O.P." Ah, What's Another GOP Family Values Hypocrite Adulterer with Two Families Going to Do to "Taint" the Republicans? Been There, Done That. 5/19

New high for gas just in time for summer tourism.

4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Old Titans All Collapsed. Is the U.S. Next?

By Kevin Phillips
Sunday, May 18, 2008; B03

Back in August, during the panic over mortgages, Alan Greenspan offered reassurance to an anxious public. The current turmoil, the former Federal Reserve Board chairman said, strongly resembled brief financial scares such as the Russian debt crisis of 1998 or the U.S. stock market crash of 1987. Not to worry.

But in the background, one could hear the groans and feel the tremors as larger political and economic tectonic plates collided. Nine months later, Greenspan's soothing analogies no longer wash. The U.S. economy faces unprecedented debt levels, soaring commodity prices and sliding home prices, to say nothing of a weak dollar. Despite the recent stabilization of the economy, some economists fear that the world will soon face the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s.

That analogy is hardly a perfect fit; there's almost no chance of another sequence like the Great Depression, where the stock market dove 80 percent, joblessness reached 25 percent, and the Great Plains became a dustbowl that forced hundreds of thousands of "Okies" to flee to California. But Americans should worry that the current unrest betokens the sort of global upheaval that upended previous leading world economic powers, most notably Britain.

More than 80 percent of Americans now say that we are on the wrong track, but many if not most still believe that the history of other nations is irrelevant -- that the United States is unique, chosen by God. So did all the previous world economic powers: Rome, Spain, the Netherlands (in the maritime glory days of the 17th century, when New York was New Amsterdam) and 19th-century Britain. Their early strength was also their later weakness, not unlike the United States since the 1980s.

There is a considerable literature on these earlier illusions and declines. Reading it, one can argue that imperial Spain, maritime Holland and industrial Britain shared a half-dozen vulnerabilities as they peaked and declined: a sense of things no longer being on the right track, intolerant or missionary religion, military or imperial overreach, economic polarization, the rise of finance (displacing industry) and excessive debt. So too for today's United States.

Before we amplify the contemporary U.S. parallels, the skeptic can point out how doomsayers in each nation, while eventually correct, were also premature. In Britain, for example, doubters fretted about becoming another Holland as early as the 1860s, and apprehension surged again in the 1890s, based on the industrial muscle of such rivals as Germany and the United States. By the 1940s, those predictions had come true, but in practical terms, the critics of the 1860s and 1890s were too early.

Premature fears have also dogged the United States. The decades after the 1968 election were marked by waves of a new national apprehension: that U.S. post-World War II global hegemony was in danger. The first, in 1968-72, involved a toxic mix of global trade and currency crises and the breakdown of the U.S. foreign policy consensus over Southeast Asia. Books emerged with titles such as "Retreat From Empire?" and "The End of the American Era." More national malaise followed Watergate and the fall of Saigon. Stage three came in the late 1980s, when a resurgent Japan seemed to be challenging U.S. preeminence in manufacturing and possibly even finance. In 1991, Democratic presidential aspirant Paul Tsongas observed that "the Cold War is over. . . . Germany and Japan won." Well, not quite.

In 2008, we can mark another perilous decade: the tech mania of 1997-2000, morphing into a bubble and market crash; the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks; imperial hubris and the Bush administration's bungled 2003 invasion of Iraq. These were followed by OPEC's abandoning its $22-$28 price range for oil, with the cost per barrel rising over five years to more than $100; the collapse of global respect for the United States over the Iraq war; the imploding U.S. housing market and debt bubble; and the almost 50 percent decline of the U.S. dollar against the euro since 2002. Small wonder a global financial crisis is in the air.

Here, then, is the unnerving possibility: that another, imminent global crisis could make the half-century between the 1970s and the 2020s the equivalent for the United States of what the half-century before 1950 was for Britain. This may well be the Big One: the multi-decade endgame of U.S. ascendancy. The chronology makes historical sense -- four decades of premature jitters segueing into unhappy reality.

The most chilling parallel with the failures of the old powers is the United States' unhealthy reliance on the financial sector as the engine of its growth. In the 18th century, the Dutch thought they could replace their declining industry and physical commerce with grand money-lending schemes to foreign nations and princes. But a series of crashes and bankruptcies in the 1760s and 1770s crippled Holland's economy. In the early 1900s, one apprehensive minister argued that Britain could not thrive as a "hoarder of invested securities" because "banking is not the creator of our prosperity but the creation of it." By the late 1940s, the debt loads of two world wars proved the point, and British global economic leadership became history.

In the United States, the financial services sector passed manufacturing as a component of the GDP in the mid-1990s. But market enthusiasm seems to have blocked any debate over this worrying change: In the 1970s, manufacturing occupied 25 percent of GDP and financial services just 12 percent, but by 2003-06, finance enjoyed 20-21 percent, and manufacturing had shriveled to 12 percent.

The downside is that the final four or five percentage points of financial-sector GDP expansion in the 1990s and 2000s involved mischief and self-dealing: the exotic mortgage boom, the reckless bundling of loans into securities and other innovations better left to casinos. Run-amok credit was the lubricant. Between 1987 and 2007, total debt in the United States jumped from $11 trillion to $48 trillion, and private financial-sector debt led the great binge.

Washington looked kindly on the financial sector throughout the 1980s and 1990s, providing it with endless liquidity flows and bailouts. Inexcusably, movers and shakers such as Greenspan, former treasury secretary Robert Rubin and the current secretary, Henry Paulson, refused to regulate the industry. All seemed to welcome asset bubbles; they may have figured the finance industry to be the new dominant sector of economic evolution, much as industry had replaced agriculture in the late 19th century. But who seriously expects the next great economic power -- China, India, Brazil -- to have a GDP dominated by finance?

With the help of the overgrown U.S. financial sector, the United States of 2008 is the world's leading debtor, has by far the largest current-account deficit and is the leading importer, at great expense, of both manufactured goods and oil. The potential damage if the world soon undergoes the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s is incalculable. The loss of global economic leadership that overtook Britain and Holland seems to be looming on our own horizon.

Kevin Phillips is the author, most recently, of "Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism."

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Fatneck said...

Scroo LieberBush...

Lieberman Calls on Google to Take Down 'Terrorist' Content 19 May 2008 Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman, R-Israel, Monday called on Google to remove Internet video content produced by terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda [al-CIAduh]. In a letter sent to Dr. Eric Schmidt, Chairman and CEO of Google, Inc., LieberBush wrote: "Today, Islamist terrorist organizations rely extensively on the Internet to attract supporters and advance their cause... Islamist terrorist organizations use YouTube to disseminate their propaganda, enlist followers, and provide weapons training – activities that are all essential to terrorist activity."

YouTube refuses Lieberman request --LieberBush told to go f*ck himself 19 May 2008 The chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee today [Joe LieberBush] asked Google, the parent company of the popular online video-sharing site, YouTube, to "immediately remove content produced by Islamist terrorist organizations" from YouTube and prevent similar content from reappearing. However, the company immediately refused to comply with his request. "While we respect and understand his views, YouTube encourages free speech and defends everyone's right to express unpopular points of view," the company said.


Damn, I'd like to behead this little prick. Ever see the size of his big, empty head...fine trophy.

6:29 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

FJ, precisely. John does differ in that respect. I was trying to come up with the right words for that. Thank you. Well said!

I may not know much about your identity, but I do know that when I see John with the Blogger B to the left that I can count on a few things coming from you.

I know that when you post a comment on my blog that it is you and not someone else. I know when FJ and Phelonius post that it comes from certain people.

12:48 AM  
Blogger John said...

"The Old Titans All Collapsed. Is the U.S. Next?

By Kevin Phillips
Sunday, May 18, 2008; B03..."

Not bad. Phillips' is a bit on the edge, but he's not running around like Chicken Little.

Lots of "if" and "but" speculation, analogical fallacies created by presenting a broad history in a narrow contex, downplaying or exagerrating selected factors to make his case, and with a tone of foreboding playing at low-level for the soundtrack...

...though not cranked up to an hysterical, Spinal-Tapesque "11,"

The nevertheless foreboding tone may be justified by the pivotal point of human history we have arrived at and that involves a massive rearranging of resources and the emergence of vast populations.

Also, I appreciate Phillips' refraining from blaming the Bush Administration's fiscal policies for what primarily involves global forces beyond any president's control, limiting his criticism to pointing out the deficits and sure to include the dot.com balloon of the Clinton era for good measure.

What anyone should take away from that article is that any "collapse" and/or decline in the U.S.'s long-enjoyed pre-eminence is much more an outcome of historical forces--almost a deterministic, inevitability--than political mismanagement by any one administration.

The Bush Administration certainly deserves its fair share of blame for the sub-prime lending fiasco(championed in its heyday as "The Ownership Society"), but that just added insult to the injury of the growing pains the new globalized economic leviathan would experience, anyway.

You may think that "growing pains" is a pollyannish descriptive for a transitional period with symptoms that others have diagnosed as death throes--or approaching them--and perhaps it is, but it's nevertheless one of two possibilities that should certainly be considered over the resignation that we're doomed and that it's only a matter of time before we go the way of other great civilizations of the past.

No one can say for sure, and we've been in tight spots before.

Note that Phillips wouldn't even go so far as likening the magnitude of the problem to the Great Depression.

With that in mind, you can be sure that our top economic minds are trying to figure out ways to navigate through the uncertainty, enable a soft landing, and ensure that the United States stays out in front of the pack for the indefinite future.

And we should all work together to ensure that.

That being said, this is the wrong time for Democrats to be leading the country, as they historically concentrate on domestic social issues and short-term, quick-fix panaceas and often lose sight of the big picture.

Anon. hectored:

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure John, but what about your own leaders telling you you're in the toilet?"

Again, I really don't know what you're referring to.

Noonan et al.'s pessimism?

I addressed that. A lot can happen between now and November. We don't even know who we're running up against yet.

Get your candidate first and we'll see.

I'm pretty sure the polls will tell a different story once the choices become clear.

Nice turnout for Barack the other day.

It was like hordes of pilgrims going to Mecca.

2:59 AM  
Blogger John said...

Kelly, FJ, I see what you mean.

3:02 AM  
Blogger John said...

Funny thing, though, fj, look what I came across at a preceding post of Mr. Sayet's:

Anonymous said:

"Kewanio Che Keekeru, again, baby!"

:)

3:06 AM  
Blogger FJ said...

LOL!

Such is my right, I will defend her! ;-)

5:57 AM  
Anonymous fats said...

Well, another GOPerv walks the plank...Fosella gives it up....ho' hump, there's another one every week.

11:14 AM  
Blogger John said...

Come on, fats. You had a gun-clinging pro-Lifer do it in Mississipi.

That's more socially conservative than Lieberman.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if it was all just an act, like Hillary slamming shots for Pennsylvanian Democrats.

12:41 AM  

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