Old War Horse Tells It Like It Is
"Let's Be Specific"
Due to the thunderous applause that I received from the far-left over the "I Am Tired" letter written by one of our troops in Iraq, I thought it prudent to follow up with one last attempt to be very specific about what I have observed and actually personally encountered during my 36 years of service to this Great Country. Unlike Bob McClellan, I will not continue to whine, twist and degrade our country's leaders on a weekly basis. Instead, this will be a one time input attempting to reach some of those who are confused by McClellan and his ilk's unethical rantings and give some insight through my personal experience as a professional military officer over the years. These examples are but a few. In real life there were many more which space and time will not allow.
As a young fighter pilot, flying F-4s in Vietnam, I was stopped in my tracks by the decisions made by Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara I was young and naive, but even then I knew their daily interference was wrong and would not allow us to win this thing and go home.
Decisions like not allowing us to strike enemy aircraft while still on the ground, keeping real targets off the target list, and allowing us to strike only rusted-out trucks made us basically a toothpick factory.
However, the big one for me came the day I saw the President Lyndon Johnson on television, forcefully lying to the American people.
I'll never forget the language, "I want to assure the American people that the United States of America has never and will never, bomb or use force inside the borders of Cambodia."
On and on he disavowed the reports that this was happening. I was amazed. Guess where I had put several F-4 loads of 750 pound general purpose bombs every day for the past five days. You guessed it, Cambodia!!!
So much for Mr. Johnson. The only question in my mind was simply, "Was it just Johnson or was it the methodology of a particular political party?" I decided to delay answering that question until more experience gave me more insight.
Years passed, and I ignored politics as much as possible, as a good military man should. Then came Jimmy Carter. Our young people don't remember 18% interest rates and 18% inflation, but I'll bet someone in your family does. That is one really bad thing Carter did for our country, but it is not the worst.
During this period, I was an F-15 Squadron Commander stationed at Langley AFB, VA. Jimmy Carter and his Democratic Party stopped spare parts procurement for almost every weapon system in our military, and diverted the funds to social programs.
The F-15 was brand new at the time with leading edge technology designed to provide air superiority anywhere in the world on a moments notice.
That was my job. I loved it, but guess what? In a two year period from 1979 to 1981, there was not one day when more that one-third of my assigned aircraft were flyable.
It is amazing the lengths we went to in those days, cannibalizing parts, expending twice the time and energy to fix every little item, and still two-thirds of the birds were always broken because of no spare parts.
Had this country faced a really serious military threat dur ing that time frame, only Montana Hunters could have saved us. The military had some equipment, but it was all broken.
Do you want to know the really bad part for me and the young fighter pilots working for me? Our flying sortie rate was so low that pilot proficiency dropped to dangerous levels. The accident rate tripled. That obviously was totally unacceptable, as we were losing expensive airplanes and highly trained young pilots at a rate comparable to losses seen in actual combat. All of a sudden, even a Texas Aggie like me began to see a trend.
Forward a few years to 1986. I am an F-16 Wing Commander at MacDill AFB, Florida, and Ronald Reagan is president. His change in attitude and policy toward the military had time to fix the spare parts problem. We were flying 26,000 flying sorties per year out of MacDill AFB, my aircraft fully mission capable rate (FMC) was above 90%, the aircraft accident rate was below 1.75 per hundred thousand flying hours, fighter pilots were flying and proficiency levels were at an all time high The United States Air Force was ready to defend this wonderful country. Proof of the pudding is simple.
Look what the USAF, and the military in general, accomplished in Iraq during Desert Storm. And, they did it in less than 100 hours. Yeah, at this point I was starting to realize there was a difference in mentality between Democrats and Republicans, or should I say, the Right and the Left.
Then, came everyone's favorite---Bill Clinton. If there ever was an individual 180 degrees out of sync with the ideals and the values of the US military, it was Clinton. He was a known draft-dodger, a military-hating, self-absorbed, unspeakingly shameless and immoral individual, whom the Left managed to elect President of the United States. Clinton's antics in the White House would have brought court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge had he been a military member. But we still suffer oral sex on school buses because a U.S. president told the world it wasn't real sex, and some of our children bought that. It took a lot of years, but now I am certain.
There is a big difference in the right and the left on all fronts, and for the first time I started feeling angry and shamed that the majority of the American people were actually willing to vote for such an individual as Clinton or Kennedy or the like.
Sometimes, an abstract from someone of the following type tells the story in very simple terms: Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Benedict Arnold. The list goes on.
America, wake up! Give in to the likes of these people, and Abraham Lincoln's prediction of destruction from within just may come true. There is not a country in the world that can be considered a conventional military threat to the United States today. However, this country faces a new kind of threat---one that will not go away. It is a threat even more serious than that of WWII, because money, industry and technology will not defeat it.
It is a threat of defeat from within. It is a threat of a faltering economy because of a lack of resourcefulness, or even the simple threat of such a loss brought on by terrorism. It is a threat created by the American people trusting the inept. It is a threat created by the people understandably wanting change and perilously believing that the left can successfully deliver that change. Have you seen anything from the left that remotely resembles an answer to the Iraq situation? Have you seen anything more than continued Bush-Bashing? Is that an answer? If there was ever a need for a strong, well trained military, it is now.
THE LEFT HAS HISTORICALLY DISMANTLED OUR MILITARY IN THE NAME OF SOCIAL PROGRAMS DEDICATED TO THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.
We just cannot afford to let that happen now. If we do, the entire country will be bowing to the east several times a day within the next 50 years, maybe sooner.
Now, a final thought meant to upset as many as possible on the far-left. As you might guess, I don't believe in political correctness. So, let's look at the facts, not far-left rhetoric attempting to empower the Democratic Party.
Initially, I was not a George Bush fan. I am not even a Republican. I normally vote Republican, because of my total despise of communism, socialism, and the far-left in this country. I am a Conservative.
However, during his watch, I feel President Bush just happened to stumble upon the leading edge of the greatest threat this country has ever faced. Mistakes have been made because of the newness of the threat. But overall, the president has done a superb job dealing with the threat and at the same time held off the constant ranting, raving, deceitful and malicious escapades of the far-left attempting to regain political power.
IF THERE WAS EVER A TIME THE COUNTRY NEEDS TO COME TOGETHER AND BACK OUR PRESIDENT, IT IS RIGHT NOW. WITHOUT CONSENSUS WE ARE EMPOWERING THE TERRORIST!!!!
The far-left is totally absorbed with the power struggle and with regaining control of the legislative and executive branches. They could not care less about defeating the threat. It literally disgusts me to hear the constant disagreement with everything the president tries to do, all in the name of trying to make him look bad to the voters.
Unfortunately, by the time the American people really appreciate how bad the far-left really is, it may be too late.
What are the real facts? On the home front this country's economy is the strongest that it has been in my lifetime. Interest rates are as low as they were when I was in high school forty years ago.
Inflation does not exist for all practical purposes. The Dow is approaching 13,000. Unemployment is non-existent. Wages are at an all time high. Home ownership is at an all time high. Taxes have been lowered to an almost acceptable level.
Because of the surging economy the deficit is under control and projected to go away far ahead of schedule. The far-left is rich beyond its wildest dreams. Still, they yell "Mr. President, when are you going to 'fix' all these domestic problems?"
On the war front this country has not been touched since 2001. I remember being part of a seminar at the USAF War College in 1983 discussing the terrorist threat. There were some good minds at that table and a lot of disagreement. However, one common thought was that the US would be hit within the next five years. Answers to the terrorist threat were just as hard to come by then as they are now.
Well, it took a little longer than the projection, but the attack occurred. And for an old military guy like me, the main point here is that it has not happened again. We have suckered the bad guys into entering the fight somewhere other than in our country.
I smile every morning when I get up and realize that one of our great cities has not been blown away. And there is zero doubt in my mind that if we pull out of Iraq prematurely, that will happen within a short period of time after our departure. I don't care what you might think of President Bush personally. He has done the best he can with what he has, and this country is not smoking because of it.
So, back off, McLean and McClellan. You honestly don't have a clue to what you are talking about. Call me, and I'll gladly tell you what I really think.
I realize there are different points of view on war, and I do not believe the meek will inherit the earth, at least not in the next few hundred years. To those like McClellan, McLean, poor Eve Kyes and Sinowa Cruz, let me say, this is a strong country. It has survived the uneducated thinking of the far-left before, and I'll just bet it will again.
Regardless of who is president, the people will not tolerate mass explosions on a daily basis, as our good friends in Israel have been forced to do. To protect that position of power, even Hillary will be forced to become a true hawk. To guarantee a few more votes, Ted Kennedy may be forced to begin supporting a strong military. One more attack on America might even wipe the giddy, 'I-am-finally-somebody' grin from Nancy Pelosi's face, and make her realize that it is not about votes and personal power. IT IS ABOUT PROTECTING THIS GREAT COUNTRY FROM ALL ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
To hell with political correctness. Maybe the president can't say these things. But I surely can.
Jimmy L. Cash, Brig Gen, USAF (Ret)
BRIGADIER GENERAL JIMMY L. CASH
Retired June 1, 1991.
Bio:
Brigadier General Jimmy L. Cash is vice commander, 7th Air Force, Osan Air Base, South Korea.
General Cash was born in DeKalb, Texas, in 1939, and graduated from DeKalb High School in 1958. He earned a bachelor of science degree in electrical engineering from Texas A&M University in 1962 and a master of science degree in systems management from the University of Southern California in 1970.
He completed Squadron Officer School in 1968, Armed Forces Staff College in 1975, Industrial College of the Armed Forces in 1976 and the Air War College in 1983.
In September 1962 he was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Air Force through the Reserve Officer Training Corps program at Texas A&M. General Cash completed pilot training at Laredo Air Force Base, Texas, and received pilot wings in May 1965.
After completing F-102 and F-106 training, he was assigned to the 456th Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Castle Air Force Base, Calif., for one year.
He then transitioned to the F-4C as an aircraft commander.
In September 1967 he was assigned to the 12th Tactical Fighter Wing, Cam Rahn Bay Air Base, Republic of Vietnam.
The general transferred to South Korea in February 1968 and was first at Kunsan Air Base, then Taegu Air Base, as an operational F-4 pilot.
In September 1968 he was assigned to the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing at George Air Force Base, Calif., as an F-4 instructor pilot.
In June 1972 he was assigned to the U.S. Air Force Academy as air officer commanding Cadet Squadron 18.
General Cash entered the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1975 and upon completion was assigned to the 51st Composite Wing, Osan Air Base, in September 1975.
He served as an F-4E flight commander and, later, as chief of the Standardization and Evaluation Division. He was assigned to the 1st Tactical Fighter Wing, Langley Air Force Base, Va., as chief of the Langley Consolidated Command Post in September 1976.
In March 1978 he transferred to the 27th Tactical Fighter Squadron for F-15 checkout and in June became operations officer of the 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron.
In April 1979 he assumed command of the 94th Tactical Fighter Squadron, "Hat-in-the-Ring." He was assigned as chief of the Operations Training Division with the inspector general team, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley, in March 1981.
The general was assigned as deputy commander for operations, 56th Tactical Training Wing, MacDill Air Force Base, Fla., in July 1983. He was wing vice commander from June 1984 to August 1984, when he assumed command of the 56th Tactical Training Wing.
In February 1986 the general became deputy chief of staff for operations, Headquarters 9th Air Force, Shaw Air Force Base, S.C. He became command director, North American Aerospace Defense Command combat operations staff, Cheyenne Mountain Complex, Colo., in February 1987.
He assumed his present position in September 1989.
The general is a command pilot with 4,000 flying hours. His military awards and decorations include the Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster, Meritorious Service Medal with three oak leaf clusters, Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal and Vietnam Service Medal.
He was promoted to brigadier general July 1, 1988, with same date of rank.
Due to the thunderous applause that I received from the far-left over the "I Am Tired" letter written by one of our troops in Iraq, I thought it prudent to follow up with one last attempt to be very specific about what I have observed and actually personally encountered during my 36 years of service to this Great Country. Unlike Bob McClellan, I will not continue to whine, twist and degrade our country's leaders on a weekly basis. Instead, this will be a one time input attempting to reach some of those who are confused by McClellan and his ilk's unethical rantings and give some insight through my personal experience as a professional military officer over the years. These examples are but a few. In real life there were many more which space and time will not allow.
As a young fighter pilot, flying F-4s in Vietnam, I was stopped in my tracks by the decisions made by Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara I was young and naive, but even then I knew their daily interference was wrong and would not allow us to win this thing and go home.
Decisions like not allowing us to strike enemy aircraft while still on the ground, keeping real targets off the target list, and allowing us to strike only rusted-out trucks made us basically a toothpick factory.
However, the big one for me came the day I saw the President Lyndon Johnson on television, forcefully lying to the American people.
I'll never forget the language, "I want to assure the American people that the United States of America has never and will never, bomb or use force inside the borders of Cambodia."
On and on he disavowed the reports that this was happening. I was amazed. Guess where I had put several F-4 loads of 750 pound general purpose bombs every day for the past five days. You guessed it, Cambodia!!!
So much for Mr. Johnson. The only question in my mind was simply, "Was it just Johnson or was it the methodology of a particular political party?" I decided to delay answering that question until more experience gave me more insight.
Years passed, and I ignored politics as much as possible, as a good military man should. Then came Jimmy Carter. Our young people don't remember 18% interest rates and 18% inflation, but I'll bet someone in your family does. That is one really bad thing Carter did for our country, but it is not the worst.
During this period, I was an F-15 Squadron Commander stationed at Langley AFB, VA. Jimmy Carter and his Democratic Party stopped spare parts procurement for almost every weapon system in our military, and diverted the funds to social programs.
The F-15 was brand new at the time with leading edge technology designed to provide air superiority anywhere in the world on a moments notice.
That was my job. I loved it, but guess what? In a two year period from 1979 to 1981, there was not one day when more that one-third of my assigned aircraft were flyable.
It is amazing the lengths we went to in those days, cannibalizing parts, expending twice the time and energy to fix every little item, and still two-thirds of the birds were always broken because of no spare parts.
Had this country faced a really serious military threat dur ing that time frame, only Montana Hunters could have saved us. The military had some equipment, but it was all broken.
Do you want to know the really bad part for me and the young fighter pilots working for me? Our flying sortie rate was so low that pilot proficiency dropped to dangerous levels. The accident rate tripled. That obviously was totally unacceptable, as we were losing expensive airplanes and highly trained young pilots at a rate comparable to losses seen in actual combat. All of a sudden, even a Texas Aggie like me began to see a trend.
Forward a few years to 1986. I am an F-16 Wing Commander at MacDill AFB, Florida, and Ronald Reagan is president. His change in attitude and policy toward the military had time to fix the spare parts problem. We were flying 26,000 flying sorties per year out of MacDill AFB, my aircraft fully mission capable rate (FMC) was above 90%, the aircraft accident rate was below 1.75 per hundred thousand flying hours, fighter pilots were flying and proficiency levels were at an all time high The United States Air Force was ready to defend this wonderful country. Proof of the pudding is simple.
Look what the USAF, and the military in general, accomplished in Iraq during Desert Storm. And, they did it in less than 100 hours. Yeah, at this point I was starting to realize there was a difference in mentality between Democrats and Republicans, or should I say, the Right and the Left.
Then, came everyone's favorite---Bill Clinton. If there ever was an individual 180 degrees out of sync with the ideals and the values of the US military, it was Clinton. He was a known draft-dodger, a military-hating, self-absorbed, unspeakingly shameless and immoral individual, whom the Left managed to elect President of the United States. Clinton's antics in the White House would have brought court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge had he been a military member. But we still suffer oral sex on school buses because a U.S. president told the world it wasn't real sex, and some of our children bought that. It took a lot of years, but now I am certain.
There is a big difference in the right and the left on all fronts, and for the first time I started feeling angry and shamed that the majority of the American people were actually willing to vote for such an individual as Clinton or Kennedy or the like.
Sometimes, an abstract from someone of the following type tells the story in very simple terms: Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Benedict Arnold. The list goes on.
America, wake up! Give in to the likes of these people, and Abraham Lincoln's prediction of destruction from within just may come true. There is not a country in the world that can be considered a conventional military threat to the United States today. However, this country faces a new kind of threat---one that will not go away. It is a threat even more serious than that of WWII, because money, industry and technology will not defeat it.
It is a threat of defeat from within. It is a threat of a faltering economy because of a lack of resourcefulness, or even the simple threat of such a loss brought on by terrorism. It is a threat created by the American people trusting the inept. It is a threat created by the people understandably wanting change and perilously believing that the left can successfully deliver that change. Have you seen anything from the left that remotely resembles an answer to the Iraq situation? Have you seen anything more than continued Bush-Bashing? Is that an answer? If there was ever a need for a strong, well trained military, it is now.
THE LEFT HAS HISTORICALLY DISMANTLED OUR MILITARY IN THE NAME OF SOCIAL PROGRAMS DEDICATED TO THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.
We just cannot afford to let that happen now. If we do, the entire country will be bowing to the east several times a day within the next 50 years, maybe sooner.
Now, a final thought meant to upset as many as possible on the far-left. As you might guess, I don't believe in political correctness. So, let's look at the facts, not far-left rhetoric attempting to empower the Democratic Party.
Initially, I was not a George Bush fan. I am not even a Republican. I normally vote Republican, because of my total despise of communism, socialism, and the far-left in this country. I am a Conservative.
However, during his watch, I feel President Bush just happened to stumble upon the leading edge of the greatest threat this country has ever faced. Mistakes have been made because of the newness of the threat. But overall, the president has done a superb job dealing with the threat and at the same time held off the constant ranting, raving, deceitful and malicious escapades of the far-left attempting to regain political power.
IF THERE WAS EVER A TIME THE COUNTRY NEEDS TO COME TOGETHER AND BACK OUR PRESIDENT, IT IS RIGHT NOW. WITHOUT CONSENSUS WE ARE EMPOWERING THE TERRORIST!!!!
The far-left is totally absorbed with the power struggle and with regaining control of the legislative and executive branches. They could not care less about defeating the threat. It literally disgusts me to hear the constant disagreement with everything the president tries to do, all in the name of trying to make him look bad to the voters.
Unfortunately, by the time the American people really appreciate how bad the far-left really is, it may be too late.
What are the real facts? On the home front this country's economy is the strongest that it has been in my lifetime. Interest rates are as low as they were when I was in high school forty years ago.
Inflation does not exist for all practical purposes. The Dow is approaching 13,000. Unemployment is non-existent. Wages are at an all time high. Home ownership is at an all time high. Taxes have been lowered to an almost acceptable level.
Because of the surging economy the deficit is under control and projected to go away far ahead of schedule. The far-left is rich beyond its wildest dreams. Still, they yell "Mr. President, when are you going to 'fix' all these domestic problems?"
On the war front this country has not been touched since 2001. I remember being part of a seminar at the USAF War College in 1983 discussing the terrorist threat. There were some good minds at that table and a lot of disagreement. However, one common thought was that the US would be hit within the next five years. Answers to the terrorist threat were just as hard to come by then as they are now.
Well, it took a little longer than the projection, but the attack occurred. And for an old military guy like me, the main point here is that it has not happened again. We have suckered the bad guys into entering the fight somewhere other than in our country.
I smile every morning when I get up and realize that one of our great cities has not been blown away. And there is zero doubt in my mind that if we pull out of Iraq prematurely, that will happen within a short period of time after our departure. I don't care what you might think of President Bush personally. He has done the best he can with what he has, and this country is not smoking because of it.
So, back off, McLean and McClellan. You honestly don't have a clue to what you are talking about. Call me, and I'll gladly tell you what I really think.
I realize there are different points of view on war, and I do not believe the meek will inherit the earth, at least not in the next few hundred years. To those like McClellan, McLean, poor Eve Kyes and Sinowa Cruz, let me say, this is a strong country. It has survived the uneducated thinking of the far-left before, and I'll just bet it will again.
Regardless of who is president, the people will not tolerate mass explosions on a daily basis, as our good friends in Israel have been forced to do. To protect that position of power, even Hillary will be forced to become a true hawk. To guarantee a few more votes, Ted Kennedy may be forced to begin supporting a strong military. One more attack on America might even wipe the giddy, 'I-am-finally-somebody' grin from Nancy Pelosi's face, and make her realize that it is not about votes and personal power. IT IS ABOUT PROTECTING THIS GREAT COUNTRY FROM ALL ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
To hell with political correctness. Maybe the president can't say these things. But I surely can.
Jimmy L. Cash, Brig Gen, USAF (Ret)
BRIGADIER GENERAL JIMMY L. CASH
Retired June 1, 1991.
Bio:
Brigadier General Jimmy L. Cash is vice commander, 7th Air Force, Osan Air Base, South Korea.
General Cash was born in DeKalb, Texas, in 1939, and graduated from DeKalb High School in 1958. He earned a bachelor of science degree in electrical engineering from Texas A&M University in 1962 and a master of science degree in systems management from the University of Southern California in 1970.
He completed Squadron Officer School in 1968, Armed Forces Staff College in 1975, Industrial College of the Armed Forces in 1976 and the Air War College in 1983.
In September 1962 he was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Air Force through the Reserve Officer Training Corps program at Texas A&M. General Cash completed pilot training at Laredo Air Force Base, Texas, and received pilot wings in May 1965.
After completing F-102 and F-106 training, he was assigned to the 456th Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Castle Air Force Base, Calif., for one year.
He then transitioned to the F-4C as an aircraft commander.
In September 1967 he was assigned to the 12th Tactical Fighter Wing, Cam Rahn Bay Air Base, Republic of Vietnam.
The general transferred to South Korea in February 1968 and was first at Kunsan Air Base, then Taegu Air Base, as an operational F-4 pilot.
In September 1968 he was assigned to the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing at George Air Force Base, Calif., as an F-4 instructor pilot.
In June 1972 he was assigned to the U.S. Air Force Academy as air officer commanding Cadet Squadron 18.
General Cash entered the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1975 and upon completion was assigned to the 51st Composite Wing, Osan Air Base, in September 1975.
He served as an F-4E flight commander and, later, as chief of the Standardization and Evaluation Division. He was assigned to the 1st Tactical Fighter Wing, Langley Air Force Base, Va., as chief of the Langley Consolidated Command Post in September 1976.
In March 1978 he transferred to the 27th Tactical Fighter Squadron for F-15 checkout and in June became operations officer of the 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron.
In April 1979 he assumed command of the 94th Tactical Fighter Squadron, "Hat-in-the-Ring." He was assigned as chief of the Operations Training Division with the inspector general team, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley, in March 1981.
The general was assigned as deputy commander for operations, 56th Tactical Training Wing, MacDill Air Force Base, Fla., in July 1983. He was wing vice commander from June 1984 to August 1984, when he assumed command of the 56th Tactical Training Wing.
In February 1986 the general became deputy chief of staff for operations, Headquarters 9th Air Force, Shaw Air Force Base, S.C. He became command director, North American Aerospace Defense Command combat operations staff, Cheyenne Mountain Complex, Colo., in February 1987.
He assumed his present position in September 1989.
The general is a command pilot with 4,000 flying hours. His military awards and decorations include the Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster, Meritorious Service Medal with three oak leaf clusters, Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal and Vietnam Service Medal.
He was promoted to brigadier general July 1, 1988, with same date of rank.
posted by John | 10:28 AM
62 Comments:
Thanks for posting that piece of wisdom.
So many former supporters of Bush have gone the way of the left...It is good to read this.
I tremble to think where this country will be taken if Hitlary is elected.
Join the club of tens of millions. I liked Romney but he went down a notch in my estimation recently because of his (too) good natured response about her when asked what he thought of her (during an interview with his wife, I think it might have been on Hannity), something to the effect of "I'm sure she's a wonderful person, but her policies..."
His wife was similarly polite.
Obviously, he was "taking the high ground," but Bush 41 did the same when asked what he personally thought of Clinton in '92 ("I like him") and it didn't score any points with his supporters or against the opposition.
They have to come out and say, "No, they are unfit for office," and go over the very lengthy rap-sheet both Clintons accumulated during the 90's.
I know it's the primaries and that tack will be probably be taken during the national phase, but they have to throw the glove down now.
Meanwhile, however, Billary is doing that work for them...
Yes, we need to know which candidate (republican) can take on the Clintons and convince this country that SHE is not fit to lead this great nation.
I liked Thompson, until he declared his candidacy and let the air out of his sails. I have heard less about him since that time than I heard before making that announcement. What I have heard has been less than stellar.
I have problems with Rudy in that I think he is a liberal in conservative clothing...but I would pick him over Hitlary any day.
I like Mitt, but wish that he would be a bit more forceful and show the rest of the country that he has what it takes. I have watched him for years. There are a few issues I disagree with him on...but I guess one must make compromises when governing one of the most liberal states in the union.
I can't handle McCain AT ALL and his wife well, that is another story for another day.
All in all, I am with you in that there needs to be more finger pointing toward the Clintons. A friend of mine was telling me about living in Arkansas at the time that he was Governor. CROOKED to the core and that was just the tip of the iceburg.
As much as I didn't like Bill when he was president, Hiltary makes me shudder. She is ruthless.
In order to beat her the candidates need to worry less about getting a little muddy and dive in.
the bad thing about that, kelly is then EVERYBODY starts playing the "moral equivalency" card and it's more a mudslinging contest than what the candidates stand for.
i say let the p.r. people for the candidates do this nasty job in public announcement ads - looks like youtube is going to be busy this year.
as for bush, he divorced this party and it appears under irreconcilable differences. there's only one good reason i can think of why i voted for him (in retrospect) and it kept kerry out of office.
i do like tancredo's and hunter's stance on illegal migration. but how are we going to get the millions who are already here out?
there is a bigger picture we're not seeing and i'm seeing the term "ponzi scheme" being tossed about more and more.
Nanc, you have a point there.
Also, Bush has been the lesser of the bad choices out there. So was his dad. I have supported him because he was better than the alternative. He is still better than the alternative.
Having said that, I have some major issues with him as well.
i feel this will be the election to end all elections.
it is with a sense of foreboding i will go to the voting booth next year.
from there, probably to the gulag!
Nanc, I have a sense of things on the same level. I posted a comment on Mike's America blog about hanging my flag upside down if Hitlary is elected...or better yet, the Maple Leaf.
I think...I just need to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
zgirl says we should just go ahead and move to iraq.
i say, "can't you think of anyplace worse?"
I like Duncan.
Don't talk that way, ladies. Just get out there and VOTE. Billary is already starting to remind people of everything we went through in the nineties with them...
hunter was my 80 something percent match right here - tancredo was my third and there was some guy in between them i'd not heard of...
I took that test. Wow. I'll tell you who my bottom nine are (in descending order): (10) Giuliani, (11) Ron Paul, (12) Joe Biden (13) Mike Gravel, (14) Barack Obama, (15) Chris Dodd, (16) John Edwards, (17) Hillary Clinton, (18) Dennis Kucinich
barack, hill, and edwards weren't even on my list!
kucinich was second to last though...
okay - who's your top pick?
come on...spill!
was it giuliani?
Giuliani was #10 (see above). Not gonna spill. :)
oops! my terrible.
bock-bock...
*:]
brownback?
he's out of the race, you know...
No, and I know.
Hey John,
Just got back from an extended hiatus and Kelly sent me the link to Dora's blog.
I feel so much better now.
She does not like having her won bitterness spoon-fed back to her.
Good job!
huckabee?
phelonius - i don't know if it's blogger or my aging p.c., but i can only comment at your site about one in a hundred times of trying!
p.s. dora is at curtains now on my second post down - must be john and farmer were tired of the cat and mouse game...
More like fox and chicken.
PHELONIUS.
oh phelonius...aren't you afraid of indigestion?
WHERE'Z BARGHOLZ?
what a tag team y'all would make with the farmer!
you, john and phelonius, realize what you're doing to her is like blogartwork?
Why, Thank you Nanc!
I rather considered it a civic duty. John did a better job than I did.
The likes of a Dora and her ilk are a puss-filled wart on the ass of politics.
Such as it is.
Dora's a typical, NYC bleeding heart liberal.
But I like her. I don't understand the malice directed towards her.
John, I feel sorry for her.
However, I tried to have a decent conversation with her awhile back. I thought perhaps that if I treated her kindly that she would do the same. It started out alright, but then I got slammed.
Phelonius did the same. In fact, it was because he had the same opinion you do that I went back to try and have a civil discussion with her. He got bit, too. But I am sure he can speak for himself, here.
I believe you like having a troll around. They make really nice play things. You come alive when one is around.
Kelly, pity for her is not what I pick up from you. It's hate.
Anyway, like I said, she's a typical bleeding-heart liberal.
i don't believe kelly has an ounce of hate in her - how could you say that, john?
we've tried for months to be nice to her - elbro has even complimented her - she's the hateful one - she abhors anything familylike.
she is vile and i will continue to pray for her as she COULD be likeable if she'd stop with her superiority-wielding ways over the rest of us.
at least the troll, mr. ducky, can be tamed and one can enjoy a good round of debate with him - the playing field is usually leveled early on.
she stays atop olympus.
i believe you owe kelly an apology - imho.
if you'd like a troll around, just go study her habits. i certainly wouldn't mind if you stole her from the rest of us.
I just can't deal with her. That is all. But I do not hate her.
I feel sorry for her because she was raised as an only child with NO cousins. Her world has been highly sheltered.
I DO feel sorry for her. I just cannot abide her abuse.
..and I am sorry that I sometimes retaliate...but YOU have too.
there's an old saying, "i don't get mad - i get even!"
here's the nancsaying:
I DON'T GET MAD - I SURPASS!
getting just even is for sissies!
I was referring to IT as the Troll. You read too much into that.
John, I may have been less than charitable toward her. For that I am sorry. But I do not hate her.
Of all the people in this discussion you should point the finger at me. Its because I said I felt sorry for her...yet I get attacked for it.
Have I said something to you that hurt you? If I have please let me know so that I won't do it again.
I have, since I first read this blog, had the utmost respect for you. I have valued your opinion.
Kelly, I was just confused at the venom directed at Dora from all quarters. I didn't pick up "pity" from you. I picked up anger. If I am wrong about that, then I am sorry.
Dora said I was "out of my mind" and a "loser" because I was blogging on a Saturday night instead of "reading a good book" or "making love to a woman." lol So what.
John, yes, I have been upset at her.
She had asked me (what I thought was an honest question) why I decided to have children. I answered her question as honestly as I could. She laughed at my answer. She had no intentions of having a back and forth discussion on it.
I know, I take things personal sometimes when it isn't. Phelonius says I take things to heart. Perhaps a little too much somtimes.
When she laughed at my reasons for having children I became upset. Not only do I have my own children but I have my sister's children as well, because she and her husband are unable to take care of them. I love each one of them. The idea that someone would belittle a child and its existance was too much for me.
I asked her if she was not grateful to her parents for having her. I asked her to find out why her parents had decided to have her.
If she really wanted to know that question she would have asked them. But her point was not to find out from us. She was not interested in that. She said that she asked things of us to get our reaction and then went off to laugh at us.
It devolved from there.
And so you know, I went to her blog and appologized for being less than charitable toward her.
Kelly, I think apologizing to her is going to the other extreme!
What would you rather I do?
Understand that she lives by a different value system and thinks in a different way, for starters. I know I missed a lot (deleted comments, for one, and unread threads for another), but from what I could tell Dora's most offensive remarks were--from a certain pont of view-- the quality of her opinions or the fallacies in her arguments, not so much malicious attacks (as Houstonmod and Jeff-Jeff-Jeff were characteristically engaging in), and it seems you took those opinions personally.
Taking it personally is one thing..hating her is yet another. I still felt sorry for her...
Behind the scenes (off blog) I have discussed this with Nanc and Phelonius.
She simply isn't nice! Her attacks are not merely a difference of opinion. I can handle differences of opinion. Her attacks are personal insults. Calling someone an ugly fat hag is not a difference of opinion.
Discussing the differences of what one considers a fun party is a difference of opinion. I don't mind that.
I liked the comments made by Sanjay here on your blog awhile back. He was smart. He was literate and the discussion with him was engaging.
Dora is a troll and she considers us play things. Imagine if someone walked into your house and began projecting insults at you.
I was sorry for getting caught up by that for treating her as she has treated us. I should not have retaliated.
Part of the reason for her perspective, however, is that she is an only child. Her parents were only children. She has no concept of family. That is sad.
Most of the time I have stayed away from the discussions involving her. I told Phelonius that I was not going to comment where Dora was concerned. But Nanc is a friend and I just "had" to sometimes.
I could enjoy a discussion with Dora if she left the troll at home.
And yet you went over to her place and apologized.
John, been having an "interesting" discussion over at Curtains.
All I apologized for was being LESS than charitable. I don't have to agree with her.
I have changed my tactic with her. I have been calling her on the carpet whenever she makes a statement about any other contributer at Curtains that is merely an opinion. IF she is going to say something about someone she had better check her facts.
John, I am having quite a bit of fun with it now actually.
Go read it.
And..so you don't get the wrong idea...when I said "it" in the previous comment I did not mean Dora. I meant the discussion at Curtains.
:)
i always use the term "it" when i'm not sure if the person i'm dealing with in a discussion is male or female.
"it" is an honest word to use.
i've never been sure dora's a she.
Nanc, funny you should mention your question of whether Dora is a he or a she. Phelonius said the same thing.
Dora a male? I don't think so.
I just perused the recent exchange over at Curtains for the first time. Yeah, she was rude--especially to her hostess, Nanc.
Well, that's the Leftist for you. Their heart bleeds for Jihadists and gypsies and criminals (for example) and fight only against conservatives.
Her true colors were able to "shine" a little clearer today.
i don't know if "its" just rude to be rude or if "its" just not housetrained yet.
there are a couple of leftist sites i'm welcomed at, but only because i'm well-mannered to the hosts - not only at their sites but also to them at sites of righties they attend.
we can get along, but only once we find common ground.
a crew of us have been trying to find common ground with this troll, but this troll is not amenable to ANYTHING having to do with being human.
so, the troll will get spanked - and often.
i used to post at fpm for over a year and to be quite honest, there were quite a few moonbats i got on well with - moreso even than my conservative counterparts!
shocking, i know.
I called her on her attack of Farmer John. All she could say was that I know nothing about the legal field.
If she doesn't have something good to back up her position she gets snippy.
Yes, she was down right rude to Nanc.
i was a legal secretary for over almost fifteen years. i've been in courtrooms where summations were being given. i've tended to children who were abused and transcribed tapes of children who've seen one parent killed by another parent and been in a saferoom or two with a child about to be interviewed by investigators as to how they'd been abused - babies, four and five years old.
i've interviewed welfare scum and been used as bait in a few stings - dora has much growing up to do.
to mess with farmer is to mess with the wrong person - he is relentless and i'm glad to call him a friend.
Nanc, she had no right to portray him in that light.
I had decided not to take her personally...she still doesn't make the grade.
John, btw...thanks for letting us use your space over here to hash this out. :)
yes, thank you, john.
No problem, ladies. Any activity here is welcome.
Well hey there John.
I have decided to take a "new years resolution" early on as far as Dora is concerned.
She is good at pushing buttons. I have decided that I will just refrain from commenting when she is involved.
When I tried to be nice to the troll, she decided that was the time to call me a liar, and then decide that she did remember doing that.
I understand semantic games. I also understand when I have been "sucker." As a result of that, I am trying to figure out when commenting is a plus to the blogging community and when it is an exercise in mental masturbation.
Hey James. You may be amused to know that Dora's blog is now occupied by conservative men. She's being a pretty good sport about it, though (so far).
well, of course she is. it's what she's been aiming for for the last seven or eight months. i couldn't be happier *;)
john, o.t. - have you ever visited this site?
has to be some of the most fun i've had in the last couple of months!
Copycats.
of what?
The Drudge Report.
Nanc, you mean the commentaries! lol
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